@dlawren85@UWDawgs At this time, unstructured rides and races do not impact AT. Only rides associated with TrainerRoad workouts will trigger AT to change your Progression Levels and propose adaptations to your plan.
This is something that Workout Levels V2 will improve by being capable of analyzing all of your rides with power – be it a TR Outside Workout or not!
Thank you for the clear answer. I am curious how AT accommodates for correct recovery from races included in the adaptive training plan. For example take Leadville, or other 9+ hour race. That kind of stress likely necessitates a recovery period. If your (AT) plan targets an “A” race at the end of your build cycle it must, by default accommodate the race in planning since it is building to it. While it is not adapting future training off of a survey response or workout data, would adding a “C” race with duration and intensity level produce a more precise AT plan?
FWIW, many of us aren’t nearly as concerned with seeing our numbers increase in response to unstructured rides as we are in seeing the system accurately account for fatigue and training stress accrued during those rides.
Last fall, we were hearing this would be rolling out in December. Can we get an update on progress?
@dlawren85 For an A race, your plan will have a full taper leading into the race and then a recovery week built in afterwards. For a B race, you’ll get a short taper into the event, but then continue training as normal without additional recovery. For a C race, you won’t have any taper or recovery built in – it will be treated by Plan Builder/AT as a training session. This TR Support article may help if you’d like some additional clarification/reading:
Ideally, athletes won’t have a whole bunch of B and C races that are 9+ hours, so the way Plan Builder and AT deals with A/B/C races works well in most cases for now. If you’d like a full-on rest week, you could add a Time Off annotation to your TR Calendar and Plan Builder will structure your workouts around that. You could also manually change the structure of your recovery week after an A race as you see fit.
@Barry_Bean Definitely hear ya on that point! We don’t have a release date yet, but I can tell you that it is our top priority at the moment!
Apologies if I’ve missed any announcements on the forum or the podcast but I’m curious about what the status is regarding incorporation of unstructured outdoor rides in Adaptive Training.
I see posts from 2021 stating it was (is?) top priority for your dev team. However, I’m not aware that there have been any updates in this direction since then. Clearly it is a challenging feature to implement.
I last posted on this topic in this thread in 2021
Would be great to hear if there is any news or clear timeline? (Or if I have missed something )
A summary of my understanding of what types of workout or ride are incorporated into AIFTP, Train now or Adaptive Training is:
AI FTP detection takes into account all rides, indoors, outdoors, structured and unstructured.
Train Now also takes into account all rides, indoors, outdoors, structured and unstructured.
Completing TrainNow workouts will not cause Adaptive Training to adapt the schedule of your Plan Builder training plan. However, completing TrainNow workouts will contribute to your Progression Levels, which could lead to adaptations of workouts in your training plan.
Outside workouts that are part of the training plan are supported by adaptive training. This includes if:
When the outside ride is automatically associated with the planned workout
When the outside ride is manually associated with the workout afterwards
If the outside ride is a different length or intensity, then probably best to use workout alternates to find a comparable ride then associate that ride
Is this summary more or less correct?
I have tried finding a workout alternate to more closely match my Sunday 4 hour ride’s but this does not seem to be an ideal workaround.
Even if nothing is on the horizon for incorporation of unstructured rides, maybe it could be an option to develop a better work around?
Hey there! It’s a complicated feature for sure, but I promise our devs are still hard at work on it!
As for your points:
Yes, AI FTP Detection takes into account all of your riding!
TrainNow does the same – it will recommend a specific workout from three workout types (Endurance/Climbing/Attacking) based on your recent TrainerRoad workouts and non-structured indoor/outdoor riding. It will also impact your Progression Levels, which, as you said, may affect future adaptations.
Your AT & Outside Workouts summary is correct in that your Progression Levels will be affected by Outside Workouts automatically or manually associated with your ride, but we wouldn’t recommend trying to match unstructured rides to workouts. It can be a messy workaround that may lead to inaccurate adaptations.
At this time, we’d recommend matching an outdoor ride to an Outside Workout only if you were to load up a workout and follow along as intended. You’ll still be able to keep track of TSS and volume from your unstructured rides, and you can lean on TrainNow and Workout Alternates to modify your plan should you happen to run into excess fatigue from unstructured riding.
Hope this helps, and feel free to let me know if you have any other questions!
Many thanks for the clarification.
A real shame that there seems to be no good way to incorporate unstructured riding into Adaptive Training
Keeping fingers crossed that there will be a breakthrough soon!
If there is a list for Beta testers - please put me on it
A follow up question from my posts from back in April:
This Sunday I completed a B event, which was included within my current AT plan.
Today (Tuesday) my AT training plan gave me a VO2 max productive workout of 6 x 5min @ 108% FTP.
When feeling fresh I would have thought that doable but this morning I was, I guess still not quite recovered from Sunday and it became clear early on that today wasn’t a good day for such a workout. Even the warm up was feeling much harder than anticipated and my HR was elevated even at low work intensities. So, I abandoned the workout. I switched to train now , which gave me a more doable endurance workout.
After this experience it occurred to me that even though races can be scheduled into the plan and a predicted intensity and TSS can be given, AT does not seem to take them into account with the subsequent prescribed workouts.
Could you clarify please?
Despite this on going issue with the effect of unstructured rides not being considered in the AT plan and despite you having at least one competitor who found a solution for this years ago (granted this software is also not without weaknesses) I am still a fan of TR.
At this time, AT does not adapt workouts based on non-TrainerRoad rides – such as races, group rides, or generally unstructured rides.
The predicted intensity and TSS is generated on your TR Calendar so you can predict how much TSS you will produce for the week from a race or ride like that. You are correct that AT does not change your plan based on those rides, though.
What type of activity does TrainNow consider when making a recommendation, and how far does it look back?
TrainNow will recommend workouts based on your recent TrainerRoad workouts and non-structured indoor/outdoor riding. It’s important to note that while TrainNow will look at your most recent workouts when making a recommendation, it does not consider periodization, fatigue, or other factors. For instance, it will not recognise if you need a recovery week. If you are looking for that type of structure and periodization, we recommend using a training plan. TrainNow is primarily intended for athletes who aren’t on a training plan, or for those who like to supplement unstructured riding with occasional structured workouts.
Now I’ve got a dilemma. I went for a 106 mile mostly Z2 (IF .65) ride Sunday. My Garmin says I need a 4 day rest. My TrainerRoad plan calls for a productive VO2 workout today. I tried TrainNow and it recommends a productive Threshold workout. I feel like just doing an easy Z2 today and waiting until Thursday to get back to the intense structure, but maybe I’m just being a wimp and missing a chance to push myself. I would love to hear others thoughts/experience.
I don’t trust garmin too much either. This last Saturday after a threshold workout plus endurance I was at a training readiness of 1.
Sunday I did a 3 hour .7 if ride, still at 1
Monday training readiness was like 6, today I did a productive Vo2max workout this morning when my training readiness was at 15. According to garmin I was dead or needed 4 days off too
Nothing beats listening to your body, I usually can tell how a workout will be either after the warmup or first set of intervals. If I know it’ll suck I either don’t ride or ride easy for a little.
Don’t call yourself a wimp, maybe you have other stuff going on that is stressful.
There is this too from Garmin, I wish we had a button
“ If you are using a block-based training model, then a lower training readiness score during a deliberate overload period likely echoes that work. Against that background, you should still check to see which factors are driving that lower score. Higher than normal acute training loads and longer recovery time estimates can be expected during block training. Reduced readiness caused by other factors (e.g., sleep history or high stress) might be reason to re-evaluate your approach.”