Ive been putting off commenting but I’ve seen so much negativity on the forum and Reddit, I felt I needed clarification.
There’s been quite a few references to TrainerRoad FTP now not being considered a ‘true’ ftp number and not comparable to other FTP metrics (garmin/Zwift etc). Is this actually the case?
I had a slight FTP bump after the update and all my workouts so far have felt just right. It’s predicting in 7 workouts time I’ll go from 315 to 331.
I held 310w for an hour about 2 months ago… so, I feel the FTPs do align. I’m going to attempt whatever new TrainerRoad FTP I get in 18 days time (after a recovery week)… for the hour.
Don’t know about anyone else, but all the negativity over the new update is actually bumming me out a bit, I know I could just ignore the forums etc but I like to see what people are doing.
I’m going cycling in Gran Canaria beginning of March. Can I use my TrainerRoad FTP number on my cycling computer for zones, or should I use whatever Garmin is spitting out?
If it works for you and you feel it’s realistic, go ahead and use it. My girlfriend also got virtually the same FTP as it used to be with the previousalgo. However, it’s optimized with the vision of a certain progression within the platform so it won’t necessarily remain a good estimate of your FTP in any established use of the term along your journey, and it’s already quite off for some users, like myself.
Edit: If your workouts come from TrainerRoad AI, then you should use their number with priority. If you are coming up with your own… better cross check with other sources
Negativity on the forum isn’t a great measure of the thoughts of the whole TR user base. It’s a place people come to ask questions or to vent - so will always seem bias towards the negative.
I think the update is great.
It’s well worth you listening to the latest TR podcasts - FTP and what it means is covered a lot.
I think the new AIFTP is roughly defined as “the power setpoint that makes a level 4 TR threshold workout productive”
It’s no more or less “correct” than any other method of finding an FTP to train with - but I suppose it could be less effective to provide a number to pace timed efforts - because it not calculated from any kind of timed effort.
as far as i’m concerned the new ftp is the same thing. all the training is based on that number, and the wattage you have to push and the time you have to perform is real wattage and real time.
You absolutely can, if you feel it’s right for you. Remember TRAI doesn’t know your FTP it only looks at Watts so whatever zones you set, tr won’t care.
I’ve always found TR to be great, but you need to use it for at least a month to get it bedded in properly, I think this new update is the same.
I’ve just done my VO2 workout this morning (Raymond - 1), rated hard (could have probably done a couple more intervals but found the session a challenge).
It’s dropped my prediction from 331 to 327 now, think that’s tracking correctly since my garmin also updated my FTP prediction after to 315w (its been sat at 311w for a month now).
So from what I’m seeing personally, TR & Garmin are probably going to align come the end of the month at the current trajectory.
My take on it - and this is my personal opinion, nothing else. This is what I’m doing and how I approach it.
As with the old TR FTP detection, I am putting my FTP in Garmin and Zwift to my AI FTP. Why? Because this is my primary training tool - this is where I feel how zones (SS or Threshold - or pushing too hard) feels like for outside riding as well. No use Garmin e.g. interpreting it as me going in the red while I’m keeping it just below threshold on a climb.
For me the new value was a bit of an adaption, because after a bump in FTP suddenly SS training was where Threshold was the previous week, etc. I’m a couple of days out from my next actual detection - training has felt good.
Biggest learning was to respect the hard days - and my running does complicate that. So in the odd case I have to move a hard day around a bit, and that’s fine. And now you can actually see how it affects the rest of the week if you do move it.
I’ve had a slight hip issue when running so I’m off the running entirely, I’m doing the same as you… hard days hard, recover days just getting steps in, out with dog etc.
I’ve moved my strength a good few hours after bike in morning which seems to be working.
Can you give me an update how your auto detection goes in a few days time, will be interesting to see how you’ve done.
I’m with the confused on here. I’ve listened to a couple of the podcasts and tried to read some of the 74000 forum posts but I’m still not quite sure what the new FTP means. Sure you can tell me something about PL4 workouts but I don’t really have a sense of how that translates to the real world - I’ve been using TR for years but never paid that much attention to PLs. I’m happy that the AI is serving me good workouts and I don’t need to do an FTP test, but I’d love to see a good, concise description of that the new FTP number means in the real world that isn’t hidden under 10 layers of discussion.
It doesn’t mean anything because the software isn’t using “ftp,” it looks at your raw data and then back calculates an “ftp” based on the watts you’ve been able to do. It take your raw data and then aligns it with workouts in it’s library and matches you up. This is why most people are saying the workouts feel just right, because the software already has a high degree of confidence you can do them, even if you look at it and have doubts (ask me how I know lol)
As for me, I think the software is basically spot on with my ftp and I’m one who got a pretty big increase. I also didn’t get bumped down in PL’s all that much, and I was doing 4x20 ss beforehand.
O/U ARE harder than before though, I’ll give you that, but I’ve yet to mark anything as all out or fail.
@MrHammonds ive just come back from Gran Caneria and i used my TrainerRoad FTP and what I’ve learned from the work outs and platform,you have to trust the process,I had a good run of consistency on TR aswell riding outside with friends and this paid dividends in Gran Caneria as I had the best time ever,especially if you like climbing
Don’t overthink it, but just don’t go into it under-rested. I used to get away with bad habits, now I don’t. For me that was the biggest adaption.
Going confidently into a Threshold session tomorrow, where the “Unders” is like… 8+% above my old FTP. I am confident I can do it.
But I was in the Beta and got the adaption a few weeks prior. Somebody in the Beta coined the phrase “over-overs”
Don’t overthink it (the process and values and PL’s and all that fluff), respect your hard days, stick to the program, and you’ll see - you’ll nail it. In more than 3 weeks, I have only (semi-)failed one workout. (Having had a tummy bugs for 3 days leading into that.)
I trust it. Also only had one fail and came down with a cold right after. Trying to build as much fitness as possible before getting two-three weeks off the bike for revision surgery to fix pins in my hand that didn’t take and a hernia surgery. So seven or so weeks of no or low training. But it’s early enough that I’ll still have fitness in the summer.
Genuine question - what did it mean to you previously? A number you can hold for 40 minutes, 50 or 60? Or 95% of a 20 minute number? Or a ramp test number? Inside or outside? On flat roads or climbs? Sitting up on the hoods or tucked into an aero position? Fresh and motivated or at the end of a training block when you’re longing for a recovery week?
All the above have a huge effect on most people. E.g. The number I’d get from a ramp test I would be unable to hold for 40+ minutes on the trainer, and unable to hold on a ~40-60 minute road bike TT. But would be able to hold on a ~40-60 minute climb.
I guess that’s the thing that’s leaving me a bit adrift with FTP. Up until a few weeks ago it was the number I used to set my zones for training. It’s also a useful fitness benchmark but I know from experience that changing the method you use to measure FTP means you have a different baseline for comparison.
I’m sure in time I’ll get the hang of the new AIFTP but I feel there’s an opportunity for more clarity in the communication around how it fits into the new system.
I’m not sure how to square that with the message that the AI choosing my workouts doesn’t use my FTP for that.
Anyway, it’s not a huge deal. I’m enjoying getting challenging workouts and I’m sure they’ll be helping me improve so the FTP thing isn’t so important to me. I do just feel like it’s a big part of the new product that could do with slightly tidier communication around it.
