TR Running thread 2022

I’ve got until October to decide. Also looking at all my subscriptions:

  • TrainerRoad - questioning, same as you, I can really do my own workouts now and design them in Zwift.
  • Zwift - Used for both cycling and running so will be keeping this one, I like it.
  • Strava - Can use free one but do like bells and whistles, still questioning
  • Jrny - Needed to get most out of Bowflex bfx56 Treadmill, so not real an option as all family use it, yoga, etc
  • Stryd - 6 month introductory compulsory. Cancel ling when due for renew.
  • Garmin - Required for my iridium sat comms, hiking, trail running, safety!

They do all quickly add up , there’s some duplication there. It’s getting as bad as the TV streaming services. Just waiting for waterrower/smartrow to jump on the subscription bandwagon.

Running workouts are provided in Zwift and Jrny and I don’t need Stryds workout database as by now I understand concept of power. Just wish I understood Trainerroads roadmap regards running, they have until October for me!

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Has TreadmillRoad been registered yet? :wink::shushing_face:

I’ve got TR, run club and swimming pool membership. They’re all pretty low prices and I still have faith in the TR training plans.

I’ve got a free trial for A N Other provider I’m trying again for the swim and run workouts.

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Race report Ultra Trail Snowdonia UTS50

Warning Long- You might need a gel to get through this!

Well it came around faster than expected, Saturday was the start of my first Ultra experience, never done that sort of distance before, my max was 44km on a flat canal back in October, had to stop due to Achilles really hurting, didn’t want to break them. As for running that much in the mountains, it was going to be an unknown, only similar experience was the Keswick mountain festival last month, 26km and half of that was on the flat. But I’ve put a lot of miles and training in, so here it was…

The course was 51km with 3500m of climbing, some 62meters of gain every KM. Due to the terrain it was going to be a mix of scrambling, hiking, and some running!

For me it lived up to its slogan, Beautiful beyond belief, Savage beyond reason. The 162.5km event which set off the previous day was cancelled halfway due to the storm conditions in the night, you don’t want to be doing those ridges with high winds and heavy rain in the dark! The 100km event set off at 4am with some 250+ people. Our 50km group, 700+ strong set off at 9am.

Mission one was to get to the first check point, I’ve started using a Stryd power pod, so aim was to run if I could and keep power around 250w. Less on descent. Also, if I couldn’t see the top, then it was a fast hike. Seemed that was the standard for those around me, no one set off too fast, all sensible as we knew sort of what was ahead. Got to that check point around 11am, had a lovely descent of Moel Eilio, it went on for miles and I took my time, chatted to others, had a gel, some nuts, eventually got around a corner and checkpoint was there. First 15.5km checked off. Refuelled water containers, some twiglets, orange quarter, banana half and off again.

Mission two was next checkpoint, shorter distance 9.5km and same height to get over, should feel the same if not better, how wrong was I. The trail after a quick climb up turned into a muddy bog path. The heavy rain from the night before had turned it into a quagmire for miles. Talk about sucking out leg strength, then the proper ascent, not before traversing a 3 foot deep river bog, I saw people disappearing to their thighs. The ascent was tough, I was breathing heavy, doing my own pace, zig zagging to keep momentum and eventually got to the top. Another lovely run across the ridge line, amazing views and a little technical for first part of descent, I was fast there, my many mountain scrambles and walks over many years helped me make short work of those types of descents, then we hit the forest. Here the path was just a trough of thick mud, slippy banked on both sides with higher banks of brambles and fir trees. I saw several people go over, it was grippy like ice, thick grey mud so you couldn’t see beneath, with scattered little streams of sludge, trees to clamber over, the path really couldn’t get any worse. Took my time there, stayed rubber side down and as soon as I exited the forest 0.5km later the second checkpoint appeared and I walked in with very tired legs and had my first thoughts of calling it a day, I was shattered after that section, legs felt empty. Thoughts of were the legs in a safe condition to continue. It was 1:30pm and made that check point 1.5 hrs before it closed, so time was on my side.

Someone else was quitting, heard the support staff explain that rest of trail was good establish trails, no more mud, just the path up to Snowdon and across part of the horseshoe and down. He had enough and quit. I knew I had until 7pm to get to that checkpoint and to quit here I’d probably have to wait hours for transport back. I was halfway and had the whole afternoon, so why not. Fuelled up with some coke, 1/3 banana, ¼ orange, ¼ jam sandwich and topped up water bottles. Sat for 10 minutes, let some energy drain back into my poor legs and set off.
Mission three was Pen-y-Pass checkpoint, they had warm soup there. In the back of my mind, I knew if I got there then I would feel obliged to finish! Put that out of my mind and think warm soup, I still had an ascent of the highest mountain in Wales and then Y Lliwedd on the horseshoe before then to complete, Garmin watch was set for elevation and I placed one foot in front of other, everyone by now was speed hiking up the trail.

I was overtaken plenty of times and many asked if I was okay, I knew I was swaying a bit, probably looked like I was going to collapse but I was just going with the flow, not fighting the trail too much. Had another Gel, and a nutty chocolate bar. Had thoughts again if I was safe on my legs, don’t want to be crossing ridges if legs aren’t working well. They were and just focussed on chalking off the meters, every step one closer to the finish. Looked at map and saw that higher up I could turn left and head back to the start, all downhill, it would be 40km and probably the safer decision. Texted the other half, told her of my plans…. Eventually after some time I got to that junction, I could see others suffering as much as me, that left turn was 150m below the summit, I’d regret it, what had I done all that training for, get to the summit and see how you feel, after then majority is then downhill to checkpoint, the trail was getting less steep now and pace and walking felt good again. Picking my way between the boulders, legs were in control. I got to the summit and decided to get to Pen-y-Pass. Again, the descent to the saddle was quick, felt strong, passed many, but then the next ascent, Y Liwedd, standing there looking up it looked massive, but I knew it couldn’t be, I’d only drooped a few hundred meters and it wasn’t higher than Snowdon, so head down, pick my way and scramble up. Nice to take some strain off the legs with arms, done Tryfan plenty of times, so made my way up pretty fast.

Along the ridge, had some beefy jerky, another gel and the descent was amazing, passed many, made short work of those scramble drops, had to tell myself to take it steady, you’re not at 100%, I did and made it down to the trail. Views again amazing, those around helping each other, it was great. Made it down to the flat of the trail and would run if slope was friendly and got to Pen-y-Pass at 17:30, some 1.5 hours before it shut.
Soup, crisps, coke and a lovely small cup of coffee, I took my time there, some 20 minutes to refuel, recuperate and think about the last part. I could walk down the road to the finish or ascend Snowdon again with these poor shattered legs and take Llanberis path down, complete the course. I had until 11pm to get back and really wanted to complete course and cross that finish line knowing I’d given it all.

So mission four came up, it was up and down, simple! The path from the checkpoint to the bottom of the Crib Goch ridge is made of big boulders, every step up and the tops of my thighs screamed. Again, one step at a time. Knew at the Crib Goch junction the paths slope would decrease. It seemed that at a certain slope, my weight worked against me, ease that slope and no problem, similar to my cycling after 4-5% incline my power isn’t good enough for my weight. It was hard work, hard breathing, if I stopped, I felt bad, if I stopped I had to sit down not to feel bad. Didn’t want to get cold, so kept on. Got to the final 300 meters, path ramped up again, pace slowed to a crawl. Others were also stopping, sitting, fighting their own demons and body. The last 70 meters felt like another 300m, I could see the gap, the top, but legs were empty, had to reduce stride to an almost foot next to foot and got to that top. That was it the last climb, made it over all the peaks! Tried to start a slow run, but thighs felt like they’d exploded, cramp, pains like muscles were trying to leave my legs, it hurt too much, wind proof jacket on, rub thighs, stretch…. eventually I managed a slow run. After a kilometre or so, it got steep downwards again, so back to a fast hike. Thighs couldn’t take that pounding on hard rock going downhill, when it got shallow again, I broke into another run. Caught up another guy who had knee issues, so we chatted for twenty or so minutes, still 600m up, but we could see Llanberis and the finish and that beer waiting for us. The odd guy was going past, all were happy the end was near, got to around 400m and I started a run again as path got a bit shallower. This time it felt good, finish in sight, all downhill, caught up with three others and we ran into Llanberis and to the finish at 9pm, twice as long as those who won, but I always take twice as long as others at the top of their game, so for me I was happy, cheering all around, loads had stayed to cheer in the stragglers, with plenty still behind…. and I grabbed that medal and beer! 477th out of 722 starters

My first Ultra, it may have been the smaller one of the three that weekend but I believe it was a tough one for a first one. Can’t underestimate the others there, friendly, supportive, helpful, all loving life, which made this an amazing experience. I was happy with my fuelling, and hydration. I had pretty much 1 litre consumed between checkpoints, one 500ml was water, the other I mixed some Active Root Ginger. I find it doesn’t upset my stomach.

Plan already is to do it next year, know what I have to work on, leg strength. The fitness is there, but I have to get stronger. It will always be tough, but I know I was on my last legs on that last ascent, I’m sure I can improve that. Mental strength I found I could improve on too, less thoughts of exits and more on solutions…. If the body still works, is under control then keep going. But also know your limits, I questioned mine all the time, safety is paramount in the mountains and happy with my decisions and judgements and would always pull the plug if I felt it was unsafe for me to continue. Thanks for all those who made this event a possibility and all those that took part. Sorry for long report, if you made it this far thanks for reading and do hope it was worth it.

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Fantastic effort, well done. And thanks for sharing the story.

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Not sure if this is the right spot for this but…

What is the current state of run workouts in TR triathlon plans? Last time I had an active sub the cycling portion was using adaptive training, and the run/swim were doing some kind of adaptation based on a simple “done”/“not done” indicator after each workout. Is that still the case, or is TR reading workout data to determine more info, perhaps the RPE survey, or some other thing is in the mix on these now?

It is still the same

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And there is a whole dedicated thread to read through and be just as angry as everyone else who posts thre too!

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This is a ‘quick question’ for Stryd users.

I’m running on the treadmill on an incline and am finding it more than a pain having to adjust the Stryd app, altering the incline value to try and accurately track power. The fact it doesn’t do negative inclines is also a pain. I find that even if I say adjust from 4% to 16%, the treadmill takes x amount of time to adjust, and thus doesn’t track how long it takes for me to press buttons, that’s when I get them on target on the screen as I bounce around! So it’s never going to be super accurate. And lastly exporting the file, recording via the app is another thing I don’t need, I like zwift uploading to strava and garmin uploading to connect. I don’t need another export from the footpod…

My thoughts are I’ll just adjust the power afterwards using something like fit file tools so at least the power data in connect is correct. I’m more than likely going to have to keep the same incline for entire workout duration.

So here’s the question and know its going to be a ball park type figure, similar to ones I’ve seen for cycling on hills… I’ve googled and been unsuccessful and might just have to do my own n=1 experimentation to get the values but here it goes…

TL/DR

Is there a formula/percentage value I can use for how much power has to increases for each percentage of incline at the same pace/rpe?

Not sure this is the correct place, but here goes.

I’ve recently started running, and had begun following the nhs couch to 5k app. I haven’t done any running in the past 10 years, but because of my cycling fitness I jumped the first few weeks which began along the lines of 30 seconds run, followed by 90 seconds walk.

I felt pretty strong early doors and after a week or 2 started to push myself in the intervals, and ended up aggravating the PES tendons in both knee’s.

Took a week off and then slowed the pace a bit, followed the plan to a t to the end. Once I completed the plan I pushed myself to run an all out 5k. This has again aggravated tendons under my glutes.

I had been planning on following a Garmin Coach training plan with the idea of running a half marathon next year, but I’m thinking I still need to acclimatise my body to running before I look at any speed work.

Any ‘fit’ beginner tips would be great, because when searching the internet for beginner tips it usually comes from the point of having next to no previous fitness.

Thanks

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A simple tip: you need a lot of easy miles before adding intensity.

The easy miles are not only required to get an aerobic base: they are required to build the musculoskeletal system up as well.

Only add intensity once you’ve done at least 5-6 weeks of easy base; and then add it slowly. Easy pace should always remain >75% of your mileage.

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I’ve had my fair share of knee issues…to the point I quit running for 5 years+ as knees would always flare up and ended up cycling. If you read back in the running threads, think it maybe the 2021 one I go into more detail.

My tip would be to add a little barefoot running into your training. Maybe just walking, strengthen your feet & arches etc do this slowly too, This I found took the impact/stress away from my knees… Evolution made the feet that way for a reason…maybe read the ‘born to run’ book too, it’s a good motivating running book and gets you thinking… Enjoy your journey and even more enjoy your running.

Don’t skip the first two weeks of Couch to 5K!
:wink:

Random advice from internet strangers not the best for injury issues, but if you can’t talk to a real coach I’d suggest:

Shorten your stride
Run easy
Don’t go for gimmicks
Time and patience works
Oh also, have someone else check your bike fit

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Congratulations, you’ve made the same error as 99% of us, me included! Welcome to the club. Your heart and lungs have loads of fitness from cycling and to be honest, if reasonably strong cyclist could likely run decent 5k straight off … BUT your legs/muscles/tendons etc are NOT fit for running yet.

Most cyclists jump in and do too much too soon (since it seems SO easy due to bike fitness) but take time, build up slow, do walk/run to start and it will quickly improve.

I was a cyclist for about 5 years and got reasonably decent (fairly strong club cyclist, mid table TTer) but went out and did 44 min 10k in local race off no training…then couldn’t walk for a week!
Started run training and started duathlons, got down to a low 18 min 5k 38 min 10k and managed to qualify for world sprint duathlon champs for GB age group so you never know!

That was last year and now training for my first ever marathon.

It will come…and once muscles get used to it, then cycle fitness will mean big fast improvements… BUT give yourself 4-6 weeks to slowly build up muscles/tendons etc.

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AS everyone have said so far.

Take it slow and dont over do it…
fitness is there… but trying to go too fast to quick will hurt you

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While your engine aka aerobic fitness is good to go and ready to run, your chassis aka body is not ready for the pounding and abuse of running. Consider dropping a twin turbocharged straight six into a Yugo chassis, bad things will follow :joy:

As others said, take it slow. Lots of easy. No intervals or intensity for a while.

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+1. This is the correct answer.

Once you are up to speed another tip, I’m using this ‘wisdom’ in that book as a guide…

Quote " Think Easy, Light, Smooth, and fast."

Easy I’ve mastered, it is easy to do if you don’t look at your watch etc, light I’m working on, on the trails that for me means extra steps, quick steps, where I could get away with 2 around some tree roots, I’ll take three or four.

I’ve sometime hit smooth, where you feel your floating over the ground, but that’s only happened a few times for a maximum of a couple of hundred meters. I’m sure it’ll increase in time with more thousands of kilometres under my belt.

As for the final one, fast, I doubt I’ll ever get to fast at my age, but ‘efficiently fast’ would be one I’d take.

Take your time, I still do the majority of my training in the vibram five fingers, that taught me how to run again without breaking my body. This time last year I’d just started myself, had the fitness but not a run ready body. I was also doing a mixture or walking and running early on, to ensure my knees didn’t react badly.

Last month I finished my first Ultra, not a blistering pace as you can tell from report a bit above, but an event I enjoyed through out with the objective of finishing. I’ve signed up for next years already, that’s the enjoyment I got out of it. If I improve next year, currently working on leg strength, I’m going to step up a level and enter the 100km in 2024. I’m not rushing things, age is against me but I have my bucket list and this is taking me towards completing those aims…

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:flushed:

That’s the only answer I can give to that. To me it’s about the same as if you said you’re going to climb Everest (in your vibram 5 fingers, of course) or were planning to cross the Pacific in a human-powered aircraft.

Respect.

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And now you can auto upload your runs :slight_smile:

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The only shoe necessary to climb Everest!

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