TR Running thread 2022

This is a ‘quick question’ for Stryd users.

I’m running on the treadmill on an incline and am finding it more than a pain having to adjust the Stryd app, altering the incline value to try and accurately track power. The fact it doesn’t do negative inclines is also a pain. I find that even if I say adjust from 4% to 16%, the treadmill takes x amount of time to adjust, and thus doesn’t track how long it takes for me to press buttons, that’s when I get them on target on the screen as I bounce around! So it’s never going to be super accurate. And lastly exporting the file, recording via the app is another thing I don’t need, I like zwift uploading to strava and garmin uploading to connect. I don’t need another export from the footpod…

My thoughts are I’ll just adjust the power afterwards using something like fit file tools so at least the power data in connect is correct. I’m more than likely going to have to keep the same incline for entire workout duration.

So here’s the question and know its going to be a ball park type figure, similar to ones I’ve seen for cycling on hills… I’ve googled and been unsuccessful and might just have to do my own n=1 experimentation to get the values but here it goes…

TL/DR

Is there a formula/percentage value I can use for how much power has to increases for each percentage of incline at the same pace/rpe?

Not sure this is the correct place, but here goes.

I’ve recently started running, and had begun following the nhs couch to 5k app. I haven’t done any running in the past 10 years, but because of my cycling fitness I jumped the first few weeks which began along the lines of 30 seconds run, followed by 90 seconds walk.

I felt pretty strong early doors and after a week or 2 started to push myself in the intervals, and ended up aggravating the PES tendons in both knee’s.

Took a week off and then slowed the pace a bit, followed the plan to a t to the end. Once I completed the plan I pushed myself to run an all out 5k. This has again aggravated tendons under my glutes.

I had been planning on following a Garmin Coach training plan with the idea of running a half marathon next year, but I’m thinking I still need to acclimatise my body to running before I look at any speed work.

Any ‘fit’ beginner tips would be great, because when searching the internet for beginner tips it usually comes from the point of having next to no previous fitness.

Thanks

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A simple tip: you need a lot of easy miles before adding intensity.

The easy miles are not only required to get an aerobic base: they are required to build the musculoskeletal system up as well.

Only add intensity once you’ve done at least 5-6 weeks of easy base; and then add it slowly. Easy pace should always remain >75% of your mileage.

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I’ve had my fair share of knee issues…to the point I quit running for 5 years+ as knees would always flare up and ended up cycling. If you read back in the running threads, think it maybe the 2021 one I go into more detail.

My tip would be to add a little barefoot running into your training. Maybe just walking, strengthen your feet & arches etc do this slowly too, This I found took the impact/stress away from my knees… Evolution made the feet that way for a reason…maybe read the ‘born to run’ book too, it’s a good motivating running book and gets you thinking… Enjoy your journey and even more enjoy your running.

Don’t skip the first two weeks of Couch to 5K!
:wink:

Random advice from internet strangers not the best for injury issues, but if you can’t talk to a real coach I’d suggest:

Shorten your stride
Run easy
Don’t go for gimmicks
Time and patience works
Oh also, have someone else check your bike fit

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Congratulations, you’ve made the same error as 99% of us, me included! Welcome to the club. Your heart and lungs have loads of fitness from cycling and to be honest, if reasonably strong cyclist could likely run decent 5k straight off … BUT your legs/muscles/tendons etc are NOT fit for running yet.

Most cyclists jump in and do too much too soon (since it seems SO easy due to bike fitness) but take time, build up slow, do walk/run to start and it will quickly improve.

I was a cyclist for about 5 years and got reasonably decent (fairly strong club cyclist, mid table TTer) but went out and did 44 min 10k in local race off no training…then couldn’t walk for a week!
Started run training and started duathlons, got down to a low 18 min 5k 38 min 10k and managed to qualify for world sprint duathlon champs for GB age group so you never know!

That was last year and now training for my first ever marathon.

It will come…and once muscles get used to it, then cycle fitness will mean big fast improvements… BUT give yourself 4-6 weeks to slowly build up muscles/tendons etc.

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AS everyone have said so far.

Take it slow and dont over do it…
fitness is there… but trying to go too fast to quick will hurt you

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While your engine aka aerobic fitness is good to go and ready to run, your chassis aka body is not ready for the pounding and abuse of running. Consider dropping a twin turbocharged straight six into a Yugo chassis, bad things will follow :joy:

As others said, take it slow. Lots of easy. No intervals or intensity for a while.

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+1. This is the correct answer.

Once you are up to speed another tip, I’m using this ‘wisdom’ in that book as a guide…

Quote " Think Easy, Light, Smooth, and fast."

Easy I’ve mastered, it is easy to do if you don’t look at your watch etc, light I’m working on, on the trails that for me means extra steps, quick steps, where I could get away with 2 around some tree roots, I’ll take three or four.

I’ve sometime hit smooth, where you feel your floating over the ground, but that’s only happened a few times for a maximum of a couple of hundred meters. I’m sure it’ll increase in time with more thousands of kilometres under my belt.

As for the final one, fast, I doubt I’ll ever get to fast at my age, but ‘efficiently fast’ would be one I’d take.

Take your time, I still do the majority of my training in the vibram five fingers, that taught me how to run again without breaking my body. This time last year I’d just started myself, had the fitness but not a run ready body. I was also doing a mixture or walking and running early on, to ensure my knees didn’t react badly.

Last month I finished my first Ultra, not a blistering pace as you can tell from report a bit above, but an event I enjoyed through out with the objective of finishing. I’ve signed up for next years already, that’s the enjoyment I got out of it. If I improve next year, currently working on leg strength, I’m going to step up a level and enter the 100km in 2024. I’m not rushing things, age is against me but I have my bucket list and this is taking me towards completing those aims…

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:flushed:

That’s the only answer I can give to that. To me it’s about the same as if you said you’re going to climb Everest (in your vibram 5 fingers, of course) or were planning to cross the Pacific in a human-powered aircraft.

Respect.

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And now you can auto upload your runs :slight_smile:

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The only shoe necessary to climb Everest!

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I wonder if Barefoot Ted has attempted it :rofl:

When I eventually get around to a hike in the Himalayas which I hope to include Everest base camp…I’ll ensure I get a photo in my Vibram 5 fingers! :thinking: Maybe the insulated ones

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This might not be the place for this, so feel free to let me know if it doesn’t fit here, but I’d like some advice when it comes to weight and running.

I’m 5’11 weight stable right around 144 lbs. Currently training around 60 miles per week on the Pfitzinger 55-70 mile per week training plan. Goal marathon is in about 18 weeks. In addition to running, I also usually cycle about 6-8 hours per week for fun. I ran my first marathon in the spring in 2:51 and would love to drop to sub 2:50 for the next one.

I’m considering trying to drop around 5 lbs (2 kg) to get below 140 for the next marathon. I’m hoping that less weight means less wear and tear, less chance of injury, more speed. I’m worried that tit will actually mean that I negatively impact my workouts and completely fall apart since this is already a big workload for me.

For those more experienced than me, what do you think about trying to lose some additional weight? Is this a good idea depending on approach, or am I chasing a ticket to burnout and injury? Any advice if I do decide to lose the weight while maintaining volume and intensity?

You are VERY lean as it is right now. 144 at 5’11 is the oppo of a big person!

I dont think loosing more weight will necessarily make you faster. If anything it could make you slower.
There is a fine balance between weight and speed. You need to find yours. I know, for me, about 148-150 is the weight i like to race. It has the least amount of sacrifice when it comes to eating and I dont feel slow.

I think you should eat normally and just keep adding speed training to it. Let the weight be whatever needs to be. a 2.51 first marathon is superb. Most people, including me, would be very happy with a sub 3. This means you are more than capable runner. So I would not focus on weight as much as I would focus on quality runs and making sure you are challenging yourself on the workouts.

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Thanks. I think it’s easy in marathon training to start doing the 2 second per mile weight rule of thumb and start seeing every pound as almost a minute saved.

It also doesn’t help that I watch Paul Chilemo videos and then wonder if I can/ should look like him, haha.

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Used to do that with running but at the time I was 30 lbs heavier than I should have been due to all the drinking. Fast forward 4+ years of no alcohol, lifestyle changes, and I have been holding steady at 170 lbs and 6’ tall. At times though I do feel I can be 165 or even 160 to gain but remind myself I am good. Getting back on the running train as I have missed the trails.

No - don’t lose weight…marathon running is about experience, you are doing plenty of training…60miles/week is plenty to run sub 2:50 (I managed 2:47 on 55-60miles/week aged 45 at 5’7* and 135ibs) I got my time down slowly from about 2:50 to 2:47 over 4 years…I was actually running slower over 5k/10k and half marathon but had more miles in the legs and experience. Plus I wasn’t riding then so was training less than you. Just trust the process and you will do it…it’s SO MUCH EASIER when you know what the last 10k feels like in a proper marathon…mentally you can cope. One thing though…my last marathon I ran once I started TT - I ran 35 miles/week plus 6-8 hours cycling. I had no real expectations but had pre entered VLM so thought - why not - I run London most years…but I had no confidence…so I thought ok don’t blow it so I set off at exactly 4min/k pace and went through all the timing mats on that pace…waited for the wheels to fall off…they didn’t - ran the last 5k in 19:30 and did my only negative split…2:48:30 - not a pb but a lot better than expected. I don’t run marathons now but that race taught me 2 important lessons 1/ Experience is everything unless you are very talented and 2/ running the second half faster than the first hurts a lot less…and is the best way to do it. If you want to run 2:49 run the first half in 1:25 - if you speed up you’ve done it…if you slow down you were never going to do it…good luck :+1:

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Don’t worry about weight, your training will get you where you need to be.

You are ready for a sub 2:50 already. Just having already done one means your body is likely already capable of running that time (it “remembers” for a lack of scientific physiological term). The best thing you can do is more volume and focus on recovery. Sleep is just as important as training. But the training is what we tend to focus on… so here are some questions for you:

Long Run - What is the length of your long run? IMO this is the most important piece of the puzzle. You should be working up to 2+ hour runs picking up the last few miles. Nothing can prepare you for the last 5k of a marathon but this can help.

Threshold Runs - Are you doing any threshold or marathon pace runs? Next to a long run if you are “racing” the marathon and not just trying to finish this is the next thing you need to work on. 30-60 min runs at marathon pace goes a long way. Like cycling the key is to not go too fast and keep it at the right pace.

VO2 Max - What are your workouts like? We all love the flashy workouts but in reality are just not that important unless you are elite. That doesn’t mean they aren’t important or we should do them, it just means if you feel crummy and don’t hit your target times it can derail confidence but really these have little impact on your race.

Volume-threshold-turnover
Sleep-hydration-nutrition

Remember, the little things add up to a lot. Good luck!