Tour de France 2021! (spoilers)

The race seems open, which is making it more enjoyable as a spectator.
If Pog holds on to win the Tour, at least it won’t be from being the anointed on a “dominant team”.

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Can we have a separate tdf doping discussion thread and leave this thread to actual discussion of the racing? Not to diminish the seriousness of the issue but these arguments are always circular and it’s the same every year. At least keep them in one place.


Rigo in 3rd :colombia::colombia::colombia::colombia:


Right….the team doctor of Sky / Ineos was convicted of ordering steroids to give to riders without any evidence.

I’m sorry, but your post is just willful ignorance.

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I’m probably in a group of 1 here, but I was just looking at another MVP/Poulidor story, and I really wish Alepecin would wear the yellow and purple all the time. It looked great.

Also, while I’m not a fan of the Duck jersey or the measurements on the EF jerseys this year, I do love how they are so easy to identify in the peloton.

I wish more teams would stretch a bit with original kit ideas. Even though they wore black, for example, the 2019 Direct Energie “circles” made them easily identifiable.


Group of 2.


Looks Nairo should have eaten one or two more gels.

Cav (again) barely makes the time while Demare and Coquard did not. Can we talk about 35?

Funny note in this morning’s pre-race. Apparently the former GC greats were in the autobus yesterday and complaining about how miserable it was to work so hard for so little. Cav’s response was basically, “This is my life in the Grand Tours.”


Nairo wasn’t interested in the stage…he just wanted the mountain points. Sure, if he could have gotten the stage, that would have been great, but that wasn’t his goal today.

One of the reasons I have come to dislike the maillot pois…it rewards burnout breakaways and is not even close to representing the “best” climber. The whole system needs to be overhauled.


I wonder what would work better? :thinking: Reverse enduro?

The most common proposal is to base it on time….a series of cumulative KOM’s if you will.

I’m not certain that is the best solution because it doesn’t factor the overall race into it. For instance, you could be in the groupetto, but then kill it on the climbs, sit up and recover, repeat.


That’s what I meant by reverse enduro. I was hoping the smart money had something better :grin:

It would certainly be a more accurate measurement but not nearly as fun as watching two or more great climbers battle it out while repeatedly attacking and dropping each other.

I guess the green jersey has the same problem for you?

I think the solution to making the polka dot jersey more of a real climber’s jersey is to decrease the value of intermediate climbs, and increase the value of the final climb - and make it even more valuable if the stage finishes on the climb.

This would reduce the chance of someone going out and getting points on early climbs, only to fade before the final climb. This would also make the polka dot jersey more tactical:

  • go out early and mop up the early, but not worth as much, mountain points?
  • Wait till later in the stage and hope to get points on the final, more valuable mountain

You could even weight mountains towards the end of the tour higher than mountains earlier in the tour. This could allow someone (e.g., GC contender who drops out of contention part-way through) who wasn’t going for the polka dot jersey initially, think that they have a chance of winning it part-way through the race. Which would add a whole new dynamic.

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OK. I mean I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure where you’re going. Any time someone performs really well we have to “talk about” whether he’s doping? I’m not saying he’s clean, I’m not saying anyone’s clean, but I don’t think we “have” to talk about anything unless there’s some bit of evidence to talk about.

His strength over the other GC riders this year is for pretty obvious reasons. Josh Poertner actually had a pretty interesting discussion of stage 20 last year, showing that if Roglic had done some of the small-gains things that Pogacar was doing, he’d have been right there with Pogacar and kept yellow.

I don’t mean this to you personally, but I just think the race to say someone must be doping always feel easy and cynical. No one will ever be proven “clean,” so either they get popped and the naysayers are right, or they don’t and the naysayers say neither did LA.


We moved that conversation here: Tour de France 2021 - Speculation and Gossip

Depends on how you view the green jersey……it was originally conceived as a prize for the most consistent finisher - the rider who finished near the front of the pack everyday. Hence the reason there are green jersey points available, even on mountain stages. The long defunct red jersey was the jersey for intermediate sprints.

Over the years, it has morphed into a “sprinter’s jersey”, but the overall concept is basically the same, just mixed in a bit with the intermediate sprints.

Overall, I think the system works fine….but they need to settle on what they want the jersey to represent. I prefer it so that the points are weighted towards the finish of the stage so it is truer to the idea of the most consistent finisher.


In my mind there’s gotta be some balance to the distribution as well. Part of their role is to make the middle of the race more interesting by giving motivation to attack when there otherwise wouldn’t be much incentive to do so. If all the points are at the end, then it’s just another GC battle (so what’s the point for anyone else?) and the stages will be boring until the final 10 km.

I think the Polka dots jersey as it stands now is fine if they just frame it as a different thing and not “the best climber.” Like keep the system but call it something else and still keep the animation in the race. I’ve got no clue what to call it though.

How about points given for the biggest gaps created at the front of race anytime during each stage. A kind of “breakaway jersey” if you will. It would keep that uncertainty around whether they are going for points or the stage win or both. We finally have the technology for it.