To Ramp test or not to Ramp test

Hi everyone,

here is a quick question for today’s training: Last monday I started SSBMid Volume. going in with a fair amount of training and what I thought was an FTP of 250 (tested in Early February with Zwift Ramp with a wahoo Kikr '14). Got into the test with heavy legs and an overal feeling of slump. managed to get to a FTP result of 225 on my stage L Gen 2. So you can see a lot of variables here. Since then, and reviewing the threads on Stage Vs Kickr Power, I decided to only use my Kikr power for indood training (please don’t dispute this on this thread, as it is well covered elswhere). Also, I didn’t max-out on my HR during Ramp (-10 MaxHR), which also points out to some residual fatigue.
Finally my question… I’m going into a solid Reinstein today and wondering if I should replace or pushback Reinstein and do an FTP ramp test followed by a 1h workout (Please give me some suggestions) OR, should I just keep doing the planned program and adjust the intensity % based on RPE for the next weeks until the next planned Ramp test.

I feel in much better shape and would hope to get the most out of the workouts as possible (I.E. have the proper power ranges)

thanks!

As far as I see it, the only point of the ramp test is to make sure your FTP is set properly to get the intended benefits out of the workout. Seems like you agree. If you’re completing workouts feeling like you put in a good effort but not totally worked you’re fine. I’d leave it at 250 assuming you’re using the kickr power and wait to test again with your kickr the next time it comes around.

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I’d just retest with the kickr. When you switch power sources probably just a good idea to get your workout source aligned with your testing source.

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@jwellford

Tempting but somehow feels like cheating, but kills two birds with one stone!
I think I’ll be doing that and see how Reinstein goes tonight. makes sense since Stage LH and Kikr don’t agree totally, and somehow 225 Stage is approximately 250 Kikr.

Thanks for this, I’ll keep you posted!

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surely will realign if I can’t complete Reinstein at 250 FTP

Yep - Reinstein is on the easy end of over/unders - if that is not an oxymoronic phrase. So it shouldn’t be to tough - if you can’t complete Reinstein then you have 0 chance with McAdie et al later on ….if you finish with a bit left in the tank then your FTP is about right.

I mean if you’re unsure just use the one day and spend it wisely so you can be sure for the next weeks. do the Ramp test.

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Thanks for the heads-up!

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Actual poll is now:
2 - pro Ramp
2 - pro Reinstein
:balance_scale:

I know you said not to dispute your choice of with power sensor to use indoors but I really don’t understand why you wouldn’t use your Stages (other than that the KICKR provides an EGO FTP). If you are going to ride the bike outdoors have one source of power for all training/ racing / riding, particularly if you expect them of having a significant discrepancy.

@WTriathlete, you’re funny! Nobody should have a large ego with 250 FTP…

Actually a fake higher FTP has been shown to improve motivation and positiveness, thus improving results. I’ll buy that!

On the other subject, not going to delve into the whole subject of strain gages based power vs Turbo trainer, accuracy and errors and power bands etc… However being a machanical engineer working in a testing lab with strain gages, load cels, transducers and data acquisition systems all day, I’m quite confortable considering that all of the discusions out there regarding which one is better and more precise are a bit vain. Power values are very good indications but should be taken with a grain of salt.

first, riding indoors is one thing and riding outside is completely different. Until trainers provide a mobile platform for the bike to move around, I’m convinced the difference are not negligeable.

My theory is quite simple though. the Stage Power relies on a strain measurment of resistance in mOhm, measures from the current going through the strain gage. Only a fraction of the pedaling arc actualy sees deflection, then this measurement is averaged and multiplied by two (as I only have Left side / Which is actually more precise than having both side for some shimano Power meters). this then is converted to power with the cadence measurement and some integral calculation. Still following me?

Kikr is a generator meaning magnetic fields are influenced by the rotation of rotors over the stators. Electrical power if generated (sadly not much on my side …) and is quite easily measured. from that power you deduce a correction factor for bearing friction (Spin down), chain condition (1-2%) and Belt tension and losses (0.X%) and get rider power output.

Hope you are still with me… so in a nutshell, both have bads, but I believe the calculation chain is more robust from the electrical generator.

All that being said (which I shouldn’t have…) I’m going to train!

A thorough explanation but I think you could have saved some time and stopped here:

If you feel that training indoors and riding outdoors are not comparable for you then that’s a fair enough reason not to use the same tool for power measurement, the individual pros / cons of different measurement methods become irrelevant at that point.

If you’re set on using the KICKR my recommendation would be to take the TR Ramp Test and reset your targets based on the sensor you are actually using to train with.

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Makes sense!

You now see why i didn’t want to go there… the whole ‘‘trust me, I’m an engineer’’ just takes over me…

thanks, I’ll plan a Ramp this week-end.

You got it on the nose. Started at 245 and bumped the last interval at 104% because I still had gas in the tank. Thanks for the advice guys!

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