Yeah, or it’s the more depressing alternative; that my VO2 Max is poor. Either way, there’s no fixed mathematical relationship between VO2 Max & FTP. Ideally I do separate tests for different durations eg. 1 minute, 5 minute and 20, but 5 minutes is really unpleasant so I don’t do it often.
I think the TR theory is that a less perfect test that is actually done is better than a perfect test that is skipped.
Aerobars are fine once you’re used to them. I have now intentionally left them for low cadence drills & wanted to go back. Sprinting is interesting though & I think it limits power even with practice. Also I don’t think standing up on them changes your muscle use like it does with normal bars.
I was actually thinking of asking the podcast at which point it is best to leave aerobars if your aim is to be good on aerobars over longish+ durations. I did have a +10% rule, but I thought it was a bit easy. Maybe 20%…
FTP after ramptest 319W
Did an hour at 311W just now.
So 98% should be possible for me.
Don’t think I could do 100% for an hour but will try after SSB2 LV.
PS: used my Elemnt to control my Kickr. TR workout “Hour record” had me doing 110Rpm in my heaviest gear. I can’t do that for an hour…
I went back to this a few days ago & did another hour of power with a twist. Based on a recent conversation with @teamkennyg, I got nostalgic for the way we used to do an hour FTP attempt…just ramp up your heart rate to a certain target and stay in that HR zone for an hour.
So what HR should I target? There is a simple method to find the proper target HR for an hour of power workout. Open your most recent TR ramp test in TR analytics…note the resultant FTP of that test…highlight either the 1 minute step that is closest to that FTP result or if you really like to fiddle with analytics highlight the 1 minute w/in the test that has average power equal to the FTP result of the test… Note the HR average/range in that minute.
Set that as a floor for the hour of power.
Hop on the trainer, set it to resistance mode, warm up, ramp up the power to gradually work HR up above the target, try to hold HR above that target but less than ~target+5bpm for an hour. Or for 50 minutes an then turn yourself loose.
The main advantage of this workout…it can be an FTP evaluation but still be a weekly workout. It doesn’t destroy me physically (even though GRA said 86 hours of recovery was required! like a true hour attempt. At the end of an hour riding at constant near-FTP power you’re doing a whopping VO2max interval…that never happens during a constant-HR hour attempt so it’s less physically/mentally taxing.
BUT! the probative value of a constant-HR hour attempt is as high (higher?) than a stand alone MAP ramp test. Average power and ‘power drift’ during the hour are great for keeping track of FTP & FTP endurance. Plus, improved anaerobic capacity has no chance of biasing hour FTP results…not so in a stand alone ramp test.
Just a few points to think about. Wanted to memorialize them in this thread. I’ve got a few other ideas about improving the ramp test but that’s fodder for another thread.
One of my catch phrases is, ‘VO2max isn’t a power number. It’s a physiologic condition’ Definitely Bilat proved that, although minimum power required to elicit VO2max is an important metric, you can easily maintain VO2max at threhold powers (or less). And I’ve done that many times…so it can be done! You just have to do the VO2 interval in the correct way.
VO2max has this ‘long component’, too. That’s the thing that puts you into a VO2max condition at the end of a properly paced constant power hour-long FTP interval. And it sucks.
As an interesting side note, I do have some HR data after almost getting hit by a car. My HR only went up to around threshold. I think it would take an anxiety attack to get me all the way to VO2max.
I wrote the other day that although Taylor-2 is supposed to be a VO2max workout, I was not at VO2max any time during that workout. (Doesn’t mean Taylor-2 doesn’t train VO2max). Once you really nail down your VO2max using diagnostic equipment it’s easy to tell you’re at VO2max. It feels like you’re suffocating. You’ll get DOMS in your intercostals.
VO2 drift or not, I don’t believe that you will get close to VO2max during an hour-long threshold-level effort.
Edit: Here is a recent study, showing that you have to be so far over threshold that you can only keep up the effort for 15 minutes before VO2 will drift to within 5% of VO2max.
Interestingly, what this study also shows is that even though VO2 might be stable in the “grey zone”, lactate is building up steadily, proving that there is an anaerobic contribution. The upper limit to 100% aerobic energy production is therefore MLSS.
Yep. That sounds correct. If you do the workout I propose you are unlikely to achieve an all time 1 hour power record. To get a record you’d have to blast that last 10 minutes at VO2max or so & wind up with a sky high heart rate during that time.
Here is the data from my last several ramp tests:
1min HR Range
%PwrDev
161-163
0
162-165
0
160-162
-1%
160-163
1%
159-162
1%
159-160
-1%
Where the left column is heart rate range during the 1 minute ramp test interval that was closest to the FTP result of the test & %PwrDev is the percentage that intervals average power deviated from the FTP result of the test.
So based on that I’d pick 161 or 162 as the bottom. Pre-power meter personal experience? I always picked 163 when I did this workout every Thursday. So that’s pretty close. For reference, the last time this workout crossed my calendar average HR for the hour was 167 for the hour.
this is why I bought a power meter, because individual HR varies so much. While the 1-min at FTP during ramp test worked for you, it doesn’t work for me. My last ramp test gives 147bpm and average HR from hour of power has average HR of 156bpm. And the last 20 minutes of that effort was right around my Lactate Threshold HR (LTHR) of 160bpm.
With HR I’d say as a general rule someone is better off doing a Joe Friel 30-minute test to calculate LTHR, and use that to do old school HR pacing, versus trying to use HR from a Ramp Test.
Definitely Bilat proved that, although minimum power required to elicit VO2max is an important metric, you can easily maintain VO2max at threhold powers (or less). And I’ve done that many times…so it can be done! You just have to do the VO2 interval in the correct way.
