Short Punchy climbs vs Sustained Climbs

In the podcast they talk about short punchy climbs & sustained climbs. Short and Punchy to you may be Sustained to me. This just depends on fitness levels.
Are there any definitive numbers ( grade & distance ) that define what the differences are? Thanks

As I personally would define it, punchy is where you can get away with going deep into the red but reaching the top of the hill before you blow up.
So basically in line with what you are saying: it depends on your fitness. some can get away with a 7 min vo2max interval some with a 2 min hill.
When I started riding, a railroad bridge sure was a punchy climb :stuck_out_tongue:
Curious how others will define punchy though

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My personal feeling is punchy climbs are those which you can carry some momentum into and get up and over with a short, hard effort so maybe up to a couple of minutes in length. Sustained climbs are those that I wouldn’t consider standing for the entirety of so more likely to be 5 minutes and up.

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No official definition for this but for me and my area where we don’t really have long climbs, anything over 2 minutes is sustained and under is short and punchy, to me. Someone who lives in the mountains may have a very different perspective

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This feels like a key component to me as well!

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Flanders v Grand Tour Mountain Stages.

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A better way to look at this is time rather than geography. A 2 minute climb utilizes very different energy systems to a 30 minute climb, regardless of how fit you are.

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A short punchy climb for me is normally one I can attack in a high gear and a longer more sustained climb sees me in a lower gear and saving something to get to the top or for that change in grade. Where exactly the fine line between short & punchy is v sustained is though I can’t put my finger on it and it may even change for me from day to day.

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I was trying to figure it out. With the training plans they say ( general or short power ) good for short punky climbs. Also, long sustained climbs the sustained power build maybe useful. I think those statements are very vague. You look at Pro cycling a Cat 4 and Cat 1 climb are very different. When you read the definition you completely understand them. They have pretty clear definitions where you can understand them. TR doesn’t define those plans in that way. Their definitions are vague and open to our own interpretation.
Maybe I just don’t clearly understand them ?

For me punchy means I can do it over FTP (so let’s say 30s-5min). Anything longer I treat as sustainable climb.

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Punchy: V02 efforts and above
Sustained: FTP/SS and below
To me a punch means a sharp effort above threshold because you are punching above your aerobic weight, so to speak. Sustained is exactly what it sounds like.
Another way to put it, you can ride sustained on a short punchy climb, but you can’t ride “punchy” on a sustained climb, because you’d blow before the top. If you can’t make the top at V02 effort, it needs to be ridden a threshold or lower, and is a sustained climb.

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I appreciate everyone’s opinion but maybe TR will answer the question one day.
Unless you know your exact V02 max it really doesn’t apply. But thanks to everyone I’ll just continue to research for answers.
The must be some definitive answers and numbers out there I’ll just continue to research for them. Thanks again for your opinions

Here’s a decent definition, based on the rider type “Puncheur” : “10–20% gradient and are 1–2 km long” from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puncheur

Though, this is in reference to pros. As other stated, time based and zone makes more sense when applied across amateurs because 1km at 10+% is going to take many over 5 min and will need to be ridden in the close threshold instead of VO2max+

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7 minutes or less is punchy, some grey area between 7-12 minutes maybe and any thing beyond is sustained. My personal take obviously.

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No

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If you take a definition of puncheur cyclist type:
Ideal races for this type of rider are the one-day spring classics. These races are characterized by multiple hills that have a 10–20% gradient and are 1–2 km long.

Why would you need that knowledge? If you going hard and you know you cannot sustain that power for a long time - you are above your FTP. Anything above FTP will elicit vo2 max response with time. You do not need any knowledge about your VO2 max. If you know your FTP you have all the numbers you need. But RPE is also very good indicator.

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For me, a punchy climb is under 2 minutes, and more often 15-45 seconds, and often followed by a descent.

Specifically, something where heavier guys like myself have a shot at duking it out with the smaller guys by going anaerobic and being able to recover afterwards.

Punchy climbs also come in multiples sometimes. Something that mimics TR workouts like Pierce.

A 5-6 minute climb for me is not punchy at all. It’s a torture chamber where at best I can hold about 120-125% FTP and watch the smaller guys cruise by at threshold.

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Yeah, no need to know your exact V02-its a range anyway. Even if you are going off RPE, you can easily tell the difference between a threshold effort and a VO2 max effort. A punchy climb is anything you can do above your threshold power without having to stop. But if you cannot make it to the top by the time you blow, you know it’s a sustained climb
Edit: there is no reason that you should need to have a very specific rule or set of criteria for the difference. Saying VO2 versus threshold is a pretty accurate measurement anyway. Even if you were an amazing athlete, you probably won’t be holding a high percentage of VO2 for more than 10 minutes. If you haven’t made it to the top by then, well, you’re on a sustained climb not a punchy climb.

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For me max 5min power is a good enough indicator to know if I can punch a hill harder or if I just jab (or even more often pet it …) :stuck_out_tongue:
I guess ultimately more often then not it comes down to the meanwhile often mentioned rpe

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That’s the thing though. There are no hard numbers, it’s inherently pretty subjective and based on comparisons to other climbs and efforts. The only real constants are time and intensity, but ultimately distinctions based on those quantities have a lot of overlap and grey areas.

To quote a cliché, punchy climbs are kind of like porn- the definition is a bit fuzzy, but I know it when it happens.

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