While Jumbo has a big budget, they’re definitely not the biggest. No one has exact numbers, but they’re probably top 3 behind Ineos and UAE.
On this topic, I think people (not necessarily you) lean on the budget too hard as if it somehow caveats the team’s success when that’s not really accurate. Jumbo didn’t buy their way to success, that’s the UAE method. Jumbo has largely developed talent within their team.
Primoz was a nobody when he joined Jumbo in 2016. Kuss’s only results were in Conti-level races in the US when he joined in 2017. Vingegaard was supposed to be a domestique, and while the story of him working in the fish factory is overplayed his biggest success before joining Jumbo was getting a particularly noticeable Strava KOM.
Lastly, while Primoz clearly didn’t make many U.S. fans during the Vuelta and him leaving the team does make sense for everyone, I sincerely doubt he would be leaving on bad terms. No single rider on the team can be credited as much for what Jumbo is today than Primoz. He was the engine that propelled Jumbo from irrelevance in 2016 to near super team status by 2020.
Time moves on and Plugge is no fool so of course he needs to focus on retaining Jonas over Primoz, but internal to that team I’m sure they all recognize the role Primoz has played in the team’s evolution.
Can’t wait for next season. Thought when Vingegaard announced he was going to the Vuelta that probably meant Roglic was going somewhere else and I was REALLY SUPER STOKED that next year we would have Jonas, Remco, Tadej, and Primoz as GC leaders going head-to-head in grand tours. A level of parity I’ve never seen.
Well, looks like Remco is out of the picture but I’m still excited to see the other three duke it out. Especially since Ineos have left plenty of rounds in the magazine to build the team of any prospective GC hopeful they bring on.
It will be interesting to see where Rog goes. He’s arguably the third best GT rider right now. The problem is the best GT rider was also at Jumbo and Rog wants another shot at the TdF. It will be strange seeing Rog ride for another team, but I think this is best for everyone.
I was really puzzled earlier this week when rumors of Amazon sponsorship and the merger both seemed to be gaining steam. If the Amazon thing is basically just a media deal, it makes more sense that the merger could still proceed.
The merger still seems crazy. Both teams have nearly full rosters, so they will basically need to cut a team’s worth of WT riders. Does the combined team want a dedicated sprinter like Jacobsen? Jumbo go to the GTs to win GC. Alaphilippe is 31 and hasn’t shown a lot of form recently. What happens to him?
Also, there are still three co-lead sponsors - Visma, Soudal and Quickstep. Do they all sponsor the team team? As others have mentioned, it seems crazy that the BEST team in cycling can’t find a sponsor to replace Jumbo.
It will be an interesting few weeks for sure and next year’s TdF should be interesting as we hopefully have 3 or 4 contenders with a chance.
Also, Keegan already in Italy and skipping next Lifetime event. Putting a lot of focus on UCI gravel worlds. I’d say it’s a longshot, but who bet on GC Kuss? Let’s dream.
Now that it’s official and Primož Roglič is definitely leaving TJV, regardless if which team picked him up, I think it’s safe to say TJV royally messed up both in terms of strategy and management.
The intention was clearly to double down on Vingergaard and potentially complete the trifecta by having Vingergaard do the double. That would both increase Vingergaard’s and TJV’s stock and as a nice side effect keep Roglič in check regarding his intentions of competing for the top spot at the Tour, which TJV had no intentions of giving into.
What they did not foresee (and they really couldn’t) was that they would find themselves in a situation where Kuss was the leader they couldn’t sacrifice and that Vingergaard would then, through a set of questionable excuses/reasons/circumstances, push himself to 2nd place adding insult to injury and relegating Primož (who had specifically prepared to be VC leader at the Vuelta) to almost an internal disrepute.
Had they left Vingergaard home and allowed Roglič to be sole and undisputed leader at the Vuelta, they could have created a manageable situation where they could negotiate something different for the Tour. Perhaps Giro GC again plus co-captain at the Tour (with Vingergaard being clearly #1 but ‘just in case’).
Now they find themselves without a rider who is clearly one of the best 3 GC riders in the world that, depending on the team and setup, could cause them trouble. Especially if the team merger includes Remco who gives zero Fs about natural orders and merit - if he feels like he should be at the Tour, he won’t be anyone’s domestic.
This merger is in itself a different subject but if what is known is true, it’ll be bad for the sport.
You’ve nicely captured the two silver linings, for spectators, to this potential merger cloud:
a much more interesting GC battle with Roglic in the mix as a proper leader
the prospect of Remco, if both he & Vingergaard (JV) somehow both got selected for the same team, attacking everyone including JV, and causing mayhem. I’m continuing to warm to the guy merely thinking about this possibility
At home with his wife and child, Primoz Roglic is fighting off the pain. Physically, because the Slovenian smashed into the asphalt while sprinting in stage 16 of the Vuelta a España. Mentally, because Roglic had to withdraw from a major stage race with bruised and bloodied limbs once more. It meant an abrupt end to his ambition of becoming the first rider to win the Vuelta four times in a row
(Emphasis mine)
I think this why TJV didn’t risk the treble by just taking Roglic. He simply crashes too much.
If you have a rider like Vingegaard as backup, why not. I imagine it took a little work to convince him to go, though. Defo, Sepp couldn’t have been in their mind as a top podium step backup at that point.
I have to disagree here….I think it was very clear at the beginning of the race that JV was supporting Rog. There were times where it seemed he could have left him but stayed with him…but if Rog had a disastrous day, then KV was gonna be free to ride for himself.
As for whether what happened at the Vuelta caused the crack in the team, I think it was inevitable….Rog wanted a shot at the Tour and you just don’t get that when you have the two-time defending champ on the team.
As noted above, it is better for us as fans if he leaves J-V anyway! I doubt he can beat JV or Pog at the Tour based on ability, but he may be able to capitalize on the tactics and scenarios to pull it off.
I don’t think so. I think the team found out Primoz was leaving during the Tour & decided to send Vingegaard to the Vuelta to win. That’s why, at that critical moment when Roglic attacked, Vingegaard followed him and left Kuss. Because the plan was to make sure Primoz didn’t win. Because he already told them he was leaving.
Either way, I’m super happy that we might possibly have some real parity in the World tour next year. Three legit GC contenders would be awesome. Especially since some very good riders are going to get left out in the cold by the merger…meaning domestiques will be available at reasonable prices.
It’s gonna be awesome.
Now, if Remco would just break free from that horrible contract his idiot agent negotiated and also become a legit GC contender. O, lordy! That would be awesome.
Well, I think so anyway! I just can’t wait to see the grand tours shake out next year. This could be one of the most interesting seasons in a long time.
If it was clear why did they take Vingergaard at all? Why did they announce them as Co-leaders to the point that Roglič said anyone could end up being the winner (famously “even Sepp”)?
Times where who could have left who? And when?
TJV’s claim was that it was their plan all along since the spring to have Vingergaard do the double, but it’s entirely possible that was a lie and that they learned about Primož wanting to leave.
I think it likely jumbo gave rog permission to explore his options after this year’s tour. He clearly wants to add the tdf to his list as it’s the only significant stage race he hasn’t won. The leadership debacle at the vuelta may have contributed/accelerated but only things that were already in progress
I’m really hoping he ends up at a team that can fully support a legitimate tour gc challenge. In my eye that is ineos as best for fans, bora a distant second
I am actively pleased he’s leaving as it’s good for fans and the sport
As for the rumored merger…to me this is unilaterally bad for the sport. It implies the most successful team of the last several seasons cannot find a sponsor, will lead to multiple riders and staff losing their jobs or taking significant pay cuts. It makes me sad
If there is a merger I think the biggest winner is remco. I disagree with the conventional wisdom that he can’t be a good teammate. Assuming this is correct it gives him a better support staff, riders, and reduces pressure on him and lets him develop into a three week rider at a more natural pace
Of course I could be wrong and he’ll refuse a backseat and then…who knows
If jumbo does merge and essentially trades rog for remco in their gc hierarchy this is a clear win for them. Rog is, without a doubt, a better gc rider than remco today, but given their respective ages and that Jonas is their #1 either way they are gaining a future option at the cost of a (minor?) downgrade to their secondary gc rider
I agree with this, but I also think that is a product of skyrocketing costs (just like all sports). It’s hard to find a sponsor when your team budget is 50 million euros and you’re competing with silly oil money.
We basically have 3 teams with all of the expensive talent and everyone else playing catch-up. Look at the massive drop between 3 and 4. UAE’s budget is double that of Quickstep, .Bahrain, and Bora. And it only gets worse for 8 and below.
2023 WorldTour team budgets ranking
UAE Team Emirates: Estimated budget of €55 million to €60 million.
Ineos Grenadiers: Estimated budget of €50 million to €55 million.
Jumbo-Visma: Estimated budget of €50 million to €55 million.
Lidl-Trek: Estimated budget of €30 million to €35 million.
Soudal-QuickStep: Estimated budget of €25 million to €30 million.
Bahrain Victorious: Estimated budget of €25 million to €30 million.
Bora-Hansgrohe: Estimated budget of €25 million to €30 million.
Don’t worry about it. If sponsors won’t pay up budgets will adjust, non-rider employees will be let go, rider salaries will adjust down. Races will go on. No prob. Fans will still get pretty much the same product.
Of the 3 major contributors to Roglic’s departure the Vuelta is probably a distant 3rd. The primary reasons are first budget, then leadership at the tour.
For starters, he’s still under contract and he can’t go anywhere unless the team lets him. The team is letting him because the financial situation with Jumbo pulling out is dire and they want to avoid selling the team to the Saudi’s. The buyout compensation plus the savings they’ll get in his contract are key to near term solvency.
As for the tour, Roglic said in his post-Giro interviews that there’s one thing clearly missing in his palmares. Winning a 4th Vuelta doesn’t change that and Roglic would have to be pretty dense to not see the writing on the wall that Vingegaard is the undisputed team leader for the tour after not only winning 2 years straight, but more crucially by winning with a margin over 8 minutes.
The timing suggests it’s cause and effect, but IMO that’s much more of a coincidence that the Vuelta is the last GT of the year and transfers and big team shakeups happen at the end of the season.
