Yes, had you done some long rides outside with the proper nutrition/hydration under the same weather conditions, you could likely guarantee whether or not that approach “works,” but unfortuantely, it wouldn’t have helped you in the situation you were in.
At the end of the day I think it’s important for us to remember that it’s okay to be uncomfortable during big events. Not eveything has to be completely familiar and something we’ve done before. It’s okay to push the boundries and explore our limits.
In terms of fueling/hydration, those equations should already be worked out come race day, and it’s not always possible to create test scenarios where you’re riding at race pace for 8+ hours. Fueling and hydration are different depnding on your effort level, so trying to fuel with your race strategy on an easy 8 hour ride isn’t going to feel/work the same as it will come race day when you’re really going for it.
You won’t simulate an 8 hour race effort either, but you could simulate a 2, 3 or 4 hour hard effort and if the fueling strategy works there, I’d be willing to be that it’s going to do pretty well during longer events.
There are limits to everything, but we can’t test them all, and it’s okay to learn things during events. There also quickly comes a point where once you’ve done something, you have a better feel for it. With that logic, I’d say that you don’t need to push training to the extremem before each event. After a couple of long, hard efforts under your belt, you should know what works best for you for the next one.
Agree, but I’m a big proponent of trying to get reasonably close in training. Whatever your fueling (and pacing, hydration, etc.) strategy is for the race, I think it should be well tested in conditions that replicate race conditions as close as possible. That might mean prep “B/C” races or it might mean going out and just doing your best to create race day challenges. Sure, it’s hard to replicate race situations, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. Try to work in early intervals to simulate race start, target expected NP, minimize/eliminate stoppage time, etc.
I ideally want the test rides to create tougher conditions than I’ll see on race day, just a little shorter duration. For me, that usually means training in the Texas heat. If I can push through a 6-7 hour day in the heat and still hold it together with nutrition/hydration/keeping the pedals turning, I know I’m unlikely to face anything as challenging on race day. That’s my approach whether it’s a 1 hour TT or a 10+ hour day at Unbound. Shorter duration, but with some additional manufactured adversity. I know that race motivation will allow me to “dig deep” on race day to get to the finish.
All that said, I wouldn’t recommend someone go out and just drop a 6+ hour really hard ride into their plan without progressing into it. If your normal long ride is 3 hours of endurance pace and you go do a 6 hour extreme effort, it’s going to leave you wrecked and you’ll need some serious recovery time. Might be good mentally to get a taste for race day, but much better if you can work into it physically.
I think this highlights the heart of the issue and can help inform a person’s approach. Some people want to go into a long event totally prepared and don’t want to end up in a miserable position of survival, death march to the finish, laying under tree waiting for cramps to stop, etc.. But others are seeking out that epic “type 2” fun where it’s not fun until after it’s done and extreme suffering is part of the deal (makes for great stories after). Of course there is some level of suffering in any bike race, but I am firmly in the first camp of wanting to be strong and reasonably comfortable all day and ready for anything that comes up. I’ve still had races I’ve suffered bad in (always the heat), but my worst suffering is usually in training when it doesn’t matter.
Totally fair point. Unfortunately the time investment to be able to regularly do 6-8 hour rides comfortably is pretty significant. OTOH, having that ability will make you a truly formidable racer, so it might be worth it! I think its one of those things that depends on you life capacity to handle that kind of time investment. I know personally I would be very single, very quickly, if I told my partner I was going to be out on a 6 hour ride every saturday!
I personally think if you want to do good at long events you need to put in long rides they don’t need to be every weekend but getting in a 4-6h ride a month would be something that I think helps a lot.
I recently did chase the sun in ireland and it was 340km in one day. I had never done anything like that before and followed a rolling road race plan doing 4 to 6 hrs per wk. I supplimented this with a very long spin every couple of weeks in the lead up (maybe 5 total) and did 100km,120km, 140km and a couple of 150km days(if you only do 50km long rides start building earlier). This prepared me more than enough for the event and im not that fit and 95kg.
I didnt do it fast but I made the distance relatively easy. Once you go over 4hrs in the saddle you mirror the effort for longer. If you do them every week you generally miss out an intensity days or two from fatigue.
Things I learned.
Raising ftp should still be priority
Learn to fuel the long rides (50g-60-70g/hr etc). Build it up.
Take sodium into account, electrolytes, tailwind etc.
Get a bike fit if 4hr +is hurting.
Train min 4 days per week.
Stack a few endurance rides together to build durability and increase volume where you can.
Rest on rest weeks.
If you do them every week then you will adapt, so you no longer get fatigue affecting intensity days. That as with everything it’s best to progressively get there if your current longest ride is a couple of hours etc. There’s some smart scheduling of your days you can do, but if 4 hours of endurance pace is knocking you out for day or two, it’s a sign it needs work.
There are broadly two reasons to train; physical adaptations, and ‘other’.
How long you train should be tied to the benefit you get from it, rather than the simple fallacy that more is better.
So if you’ve done ultra distance before, your position(s) is dialled, and your nutrition, and your mindset sorted then you are likely best to focus on physical adaptations.
As always, consistency and progressive overload are the prime movers - preconceived ideas that a ride must be x long or infinitely long will detract from those two prime factors. The length or any given ride should be the output from consistency and overload, not the other way around. This will naturally describe rides of types and lengths suited to one rider and not another.
Not sure why I quoted @JohnB as I’m not replying to him but it’s his comment that stimulated my thoughts on this.
No worries, I replied more as a review of my own thoughts on my own progress and lessons i learned but you are right we are all different and my thoughts are for people at my level. Come end of the summer even i won’t be at my level though!
Do I need to do a seven hour endurance ride escalating every week to stimulate adaptations in the type 2 muscle fibres and mitochondrial density in my body or will one hour endurance, or sweet spot, or vo2 intervals do that?
Indeed. When riders talk about being too fatigued to execute VO2 sessions well the day after a 4 hour Z2 ride, then it shows they are not adapted to those durations of Z2. They haven’t developed fatigue resistance at those intensities and durations.
Another rider who able to execute a 4 hour Z2 ride, and their VO2 perfectly the day after, is adapted and has greater fatigue resistance for that duration and intensity.
Not only fatigue resistance but their ability to recover from long duration rides is faster and superior. An important quality for ultra endurance where you may be riding for upto 16 hours a day for one or two weeks for your A event.
Just commenting on the endurance side, one hour is not enough, you need 90 minutes plus. 90 minutes regularly (everyday) gets 90-95% of the job done. Beyond 90 minutes the benefits drop off significantly, for example five or so minutes below 90 minutes. Important: this is if getting the 90 ish minute stimulus almost everyday.
Cant remember the scientific paper but it tested what many top coaches prescribed and found the 90 minute almost everyday resulted in the best performance verse time. Having said that its an old study now.
Also significant improvement can be made with the 5 hr plus rides but not in they are one offs in a multiple month period, also the 90 minute should be in place first.
PS. Feel free to consider this comment BS, not bothered… its a good guide and not that easy to do, great results to be had.
There’s lots of good debate on the tradeoffs between longer/fewer vs. shorter/more sessions. My take-away is that the total volume is the biggest adaptation driver while how you break it up is secondary but still plays a role. I’ve never heard anything magical about 90 minutes, but I’ve seen studies indicating there are adaptations that are stronger as you ride longer (up to a point). And just like any other adaptation, to keep progressing you have to continually increase training load. At some point, you can only generate so much tss when you are limited to 90-120 minute endurance rides. Unless you are doing 2-3 of them per day.
Yeah, if you need to break things into samll chunks to increase TSS, then go with smaller chunks. But I’m a big believer in going long. I’ve been regularly doing 1000+ TSS weeks and most of that volume happens across 3-4 days and I try to get a couple 5+ hour rides in every week (except rest weeks). That gives me 3 days a week that are either completely off the bike or short recovery rides while still racking up significant TSS. So, the benefits of the long rides are 2-fold. You get some of those nice adaptations that happen after 3+ hours, and it give you some quality rest days when you can get most of the training stress knocked out in 3-4 days a week. Just hard on the schedule for most to pull off those kind of hours straight. I’m lucky enough to be retired and riding my bike is basically a part time job.
noticed what I typed lol, was supposed to be:
not bothered… its a good guide and not that easy to do, great results to be had.