NEWS: The Sufferfest Has Just Become "WAHOO SYSTM"

From the Introducing Adaptive Training forum thread that announced AT:

So yeah, while some will take offense at the term, AT is a ‘hack’ to work around:

  • Ramp Testing as a single metric to base training on, if FTP estimate is too high/low
  • Above threshold work that must be individualized and treated independent of FTP (Coggan iLevels from 6 years ago)
  • Further customize workouts in terms of time-in-zone and number of intervals, based on the athlete’s fitness and ability to recover

That doesn’t make AT bad. And to be clear - you don’t need AT or ML to do the items above. What AT promises is to make it as easy as following a plan in exchange for a subscription fee. That is exactly what some people want, they have no real interest in self-coaching or hiring a coach.

But that doesn’t make AT better than other options. I get better results following a different approach to base, and TR doesn’t offer that approach, so why would I use TR base plans? AT isn’t going to give me another approach, it uses the TR approach and adapts workouts based on my fitness/feedback.

SUF did add support for Android, I’d say that was their first priority. I’ve no plans to use SYSTM, will be interesting to see what happens over the next year.

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I certainly understand that was a priority. It was one of the reasons to switch to TR for me. Though nowadays I use Macbook Air so it’s not as necessary - the Android app gets used to quickly check and mark running workouts.

About the Mac: SYSTM has a native version for the new Macs, whereas TR still has to run under emulation. Not that showing the bar graph is performance limited, though :slight_smile:

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I’ve had great success with the sufferfest app over the years, but for some reason I keep leaving it and coming back to TR, where my FTP stagnates and falls, I keep coming back because of the FOM, but AT was the last straw for me

I’m currently using Systm, and xert and it’s working well for me at the moment

I get the feeling that this release was about getting the new platform out, getting android out, and setting the base, it appears that they have a lot of changes coming, included (according to dc rainmaker) the ability to manage hardware from inside the app

I don’t think they have, there are plenty of things coming in the next few months, and as TR have proved with AT, software development takes time, some of the things they have promised are in the dcrainmaker article

I’ve found that using an app to control the trainer is overrated. One user experience for both indoor and outdoor workouts - my bike computer for the win :rofl:

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Highly infections vowel eating virus continues to ravage the bike industry.

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Things like this make me feel very old. I have no idea what that bike does or who rides it.

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It is a dirt jumping / dirt track bike…

But what a horrible name…I was literally thinking “Stacked??? Why would anyone name a dirt jumping bike Stacked?”…took a google search for me to realize it was Stitched.

Dumb.

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I was like, “Stached?” :rofl:

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What unit do you use? I find that when I use my Garmin to control the trainer, power is all over the place.

At the start of the workout I put the Kickr in standard/level mode, level =2, and it’s basically like riding outside.

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This year I’ve given significant time to trying out Sufferfest, Fulfaz, Zwift, Bkool and TrainerRoad.
I found that, just for me, TrainerRoad is the stand out best. I enjoy focusing on the objectives with clear supporting stats. And it’s great to choose my own videos /music for the perfect accompaniment.

Surprisingly, Fulgaz was the next best, feeling very close to riding outdoors, but with poor workplans.

A shout out too for Bkool’s super Velodrome offering.

Sufferfest workouts were unremittingly tough with boring videos and one repetitive bad joke. I was glad to be rid.

Surprisingly to me, Zwift was irritating in the extreme. The repetitive intrusions distracted from my effort (I resorted to muting and listening to music). I found the graphics tedious and pointless, and the wworkouts to be badly designed.

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This is what it comes back to for me….the TR plans provide me the structure I need, but I am not tied to someone else’s decision as to what I will watch / listen to.

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yeah the zwift plans are pretty awful

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CT podcast with the Wahoo Crw (crew) about Systm.

That podcast came off to me as a fluff piece. Lots of rah rah for Systm and snide remarks about other unnamed competitors (TR being one). I was hoping for more, but even with the rah rah it made Systm seem under whelming / lacking basic features. Listening to the podcast it seems like the only mode Systm has is to follow one of their plans, but when asked if they were a replacement for having a coach, the answer was no. I’m not sure how that works when the only mode is to follow their plans / proscribed workouts. But I’m basing this entirely on the podcast

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Just replying to you as you’re the latest comment in the thread. I bought a Kickr Core that came with a year free Sufferfest membership. As a TR subscriber, I didn’t bother to cash it in, but when SUF changed to Systm I wanted to have a closer look. Due to some to-ing and fro-ing with Wahoo support, they gave me an extra couple of months free so I have access until Feb 2023.

Why did I want to look elsewhere? I’m now in my fourth year of annual subscription with TR and have no intention of cancelling as the value with the locked in pricing is too good. There’s a wealth of workouts and plans etc. As has been mentioned in other threads, I got to the stage where I false-started TR plans three times due to becoming cooked. For me, a change was as good as a break and at the moment I am certainly enjoying the novelty of the Systm videos and workouts. I like TrainNow as a feature, but for me AT is not a huge selling point unless you are fully bought into plans or Plan Builder, and see it through. I always like to ride outdoors when possible, and the lack of AT integration with unstructured outdoor rides is a negative for me.

On another note, strictly speaking I think you’d be hard pushed to say what the BEST indoor training system is. I’m sure @dcrainmaker would have some thoughts as someone in the tech world, but a lot of it comes down to personal preference and whatever ticks the box at the right time. I would suggest there are probably top tier and second tier products, but in a league that depends on what you need. I tried Zwift at the start of lockdown, it’s fine, but not for me. Literally thousands and thousands disagree. At the moment, with other life and work stress, I really like getting on the bike, pushing play on System and getting off after a good workout with some pleasant distraction. I am committed to a Systm plan to try to get a PB at the local sportive at the end of April, I’ll come back then and add my thoughts. With all due respect to TR staff, Neal Henderson is an internationally renowned coach and I think Systm will benefit greatly in the long run from his involvement, as while it is a good start there is a lot of potential development if it wants to be a long-term ‘top tier’ platform.

As a final point, and at the risk of things getting personal, alongside the physical elements of feeling burned out on TR plans I also feel me cooling off on the AACC podcast has something to do with it. At the start of lockdown with people round the world feeling scared and unsure about how things will pan out, the core crew of Jonathan, Nate, Amber and Chad ‘talking to me’ on a weekly basis was great. I felt very personally invested in the podcast at that time and stayed up past my normal bedtime with a drink for Beers with Chad. I couldn’t put my finger on what it is, but something changed for me with the podcast and I think it has something to do with ‘polarised-gate’. Since then the podcast has felt a bit different, and while it has benefitted from new faces like Ivy and Alex, and I still listen, I don’t look forward to it like I once did. I appreciate that there has been a lot of positive and negative personal things going on for the core podcast crew and Pete that meant the need to flex, but for me it feels a little bit like the magic has gone. But you know what - other podcasts are available and the podcast is not just for me. As with Zwift, I’m sure hundreds/thousands disagree with my personal opinion, but just wanted to share some of my reasons for looking elsewhere for training and motivation. Having said that, I will be staying a subscriber so I hope I will be welcomed back and not excommunicated :slight_smile:

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excommunicado-john

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:broken_heart: :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Neal Henderson has been involved quite a long time, I would have thought by now their plan offering would have been a lot better than it is. It all still seems quite random (I havent looked for about 2 months).

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From my limited look through the plans (only triathlon plans), I actually do not think they look random. I started a sprint tri plan that is way more HIIT-like than TR plans. Bikes followed the general pattern of Tuesday: HIIT or VO2max, Thursday: recovery, Saturday: Tempo or SS or Threshold. Running is a lot of early season endurance. Swimming has a lot of drills.

I signed up for The Sufferfest during the initial COVID lockdowns for the strength/yoga workouts and had never looked at the training plans until they re-branded. The whole Sufferfest world never interested me. From my understanding, they want to tame that way down and move into more of a TrainingPeaks & Garmin competitor.