Yeah, I didn’t catch any clear statement that this contained payment (might have missed it?), but it sure wasn’t more than a puff piece. Yet another example of why I cut my CT subscription and only reference them on rare occasions any more.
After hearing Caley rail against Zwift EVERY time it even got mentioned on their cast in the last 2 years, it’s hard to take him seriously here. He tossed out some soft balls and totally sidestepped any attempt to follow up and push on them with anything approaching “journalism”.
Stuff like this starts to make them looks a lot like GCN. Good and bad there, but it becomes more difficult to take them seriously on their real reports when they mix in nearly worthless info like this cast.
I admit that could be a tad harsh, but considering their history (Caley in particular), it stinks like pay to play to me.
I don’t know Caley’s background, but I’ve found a lot of his opinions to be very black and white and really disconnected from what the cycling community actually wants/believes. I’m not sure if he just wants to be edgy or what. Ronan McLaughlin is doing a trainer/training platform test. That may be more valuable, though no guarantees.
On the AACC pod, there’s another thread about things, but I think what is described above illustrates how much value Nate has to the pod as the every man and colour guy.
Agreed. He strikes me as the “hard man” of old type rider. Many of his stances seem old school or dated to put it nicely. I appreciated James and Dave Rome a ton, and Ronan is a great addition that brings a practical sense to the CT cast.
Notably, since they split out the Nerd Alert into it’s own cast, I continue to listen to that regularly while picking up only the CT casts that seem relevant to me.
I’m a paid CT member and was before the paywall. I am very skeptical of the Outside purchase and feel I can already see negative changes. I don’t feel things have been as transparent as they want to say they have been, but I have to defend the Wahoo podcast because they’ve been very transparent about it, as you can see in the pics below.
Caley’s black and white opinions drive me nuts. My current frustration is that he has to constantly point out that he thinks all things gravel would be better on a mtb. I don’t know about you, but I have zero desire to do most gravel races on a hardtail. Having said that, most of their content has been really good and they have some great talent. James is absolute gold, and I will gladly pay for his work. Shoddy’s sense of humor is right up my alley too, and his work during early COVID really brightened up dark times.
I haven’t listened to the full pod yet, but do they ever mention the partnership during the actual pod? I know I rarely read the full description on any podcast I listen to.
Good to see in the text, but that aspect is absent from the actual podcast content (audio) in any way that I can hear. That may well align with the others like this (Venge, Shiv, etc), but seems funny to leave that basic statement out of the actual content in question
Also, the “in partnership with” likely means “paid promotion” in reality, and I find that use of words to be a bit sketchy. May or may not mean to partly obscure the situation, but for people like this, I’d much prefer at clear and obvious statement when it comes to content like this (as GCN does).
I get your point, but I think you’re asking for something I’ve never seen before in any podcast anywhere. Are there other podcasts that start with “Hi, thanks for joining us, Wahoo paid us to interview them, so that’s what we’re doing”?
I also find the nitpicking of what words they use to scream, “nothing will ever be good enough”. This is very transparent. We should be commending them for doing what so few do. If we’re going to butcher them for being transparent, but not using the exact words we each prefer, then they might as well not be transparent at all. Now if you want to argue that they should never be doing paid podcasts in the first place, that’s a whole different argument, and I would probably agree with you.
Well, in a way. CT started doing paid promo’s / ads on their regular podcasts. Despite being cringe worthy to the point that I wonder if the paying companies appreciate the CT approach, they are stating plainly that the podcast is sponsored in the actual discussion.
I don’t find that asking them to take 10 seconds to state what they already included in the related text a big ask… and yes… that would satisfy me despite the nits picked here.
Yeah, there have been more than a few reads of Continental spots where my reaction was “Man, if I was the marketing manager, I’d be making a call right now.”
Just listened while working on a legal doc, so wasn’t fully paying attention. The podcast was billed as a closer look at SYSTM, and I was interested in hearing about that so it wasn’t fluff to me. Specifically:
my view of Sufferfest has been ‘nearly impossible workouts’ and they admitted to that
the primary perspective seemed to be SYSTM vs 15-25 hours/week with a coach
they have plans and the ability to add them as either 2 weeks building / 1 week rest, or 3/1
add strength, yoga, and mental as you see fit
in my humble opinion their platform is grounded in a proper profiling of physiology at 4 different durations, and workouts are scaled based on your ability. This is contrasted to TR’s ramp test singular focus on max aerobic power, and scaling workouts based on feedback from doing workouts.
it sounds like a platform more geared to athletes that have some opinion on their own training
they have a lot of ‘not available yet’ like sending workouts to a bike computer for doing outside
FWIW thats what I heard. They were honest about shortcomings, and the approach, but like all things cycling you have to pay attention to their perspective in order to interpret some of what was said.
It seems like the platform has potential (my only exposure was the podcast as well) however as you say, so much is promised content that isn’t available.
After listening I went across to look at the page and to be honest, I thought there was bugger all available for the money.
I actually tried to get Sufferfest before I signed up to TR. They promised Android was imminent, and it really wasn’t, and their plans weren’t up to much. Perfect for what I was doing then which was reintroducing myself to endurance training with 45min random HIIT workouts everyday during lockdown.
I’d be nervous to switch right now, the benefits don’t seem to exist (as in are all promised as coming soon) and the platform/user interface doesn’t seem to be as good yet. Having said that, Wahoo is a massive company so may get things done more quickly, their plans may develop quickly, and for some people the Sufferfest/pro ride/real course visual experience is exactly what they want.
Without signing up and looking, I wouldn’t go so far as to say SYSTM benefits are all promised and still on the roadmap. The DCRainmaker hands-on makes it clear its a real platform.
Fluff == no follow-up, taking everything on its face. Follow-up doesn’t have to be about “gotcha”, but about digging / asking the “why” or impact of a decision. For example, with all of the current “missing” features, would I be in the Systm target market?
The only new to me item I heard was the ability to tailor the work / rest week ratio. That is definitely a big
I would have liked more discussion around who they are targeting this to today given the not currently enabled features.
On CT being transparen (general point)t: this is a requirement. That is: you can get sued by the US FTC / other agencies if you don’t declare paid promotions. The FTC started cracking down about a year or two ago, which is why you now see this being called out.
Don’t have a dog in this fight, but the main missing feature I heard was outside workouts pushed to a bike computer. And they said its winter indoor training season. And they want to add and/or improve analytics. Looking at the recent DCRainmaker hands-on it had a “Coming Soonish” section and I saw the same
Sounds like the target market at current moment is anyone training inside, or willing to write down or create structured outside workout. And someone that understands the value of adding strength and mobility, and might find value in the mental side of training. They made the point that they believe most athletes would benefit from both cycling and strength/mobility, and the current platform will give you such a plan today.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight either at the moment. I also think having the strength / mobility in the same app is a huge selling point. The one thing I would need at the moment is the ability to create and schedule custom workouts. Hopefully this will get added
I have utilized Sufferfest/SYSTM for about 2 years. Usually I use a plan during the colder months and only about one interval ride a week when I’m riding outdoors in the summer and fall. My random thoughts (keeping in mind I haven’t used the new Adaptive Training or Train Now features on TR):
Things I like:
• Plans can include strength, yoga and mental training add ons. I don’t actually use the strength (because I’m too vain and instead use Body Beast and P90X to keep my upper body much too heavy) but the few times I did it made total sense for the bike. The yoga is excellent at keeping my hips and lower back from tightening up on longer rides. If you are younger than me (44) that might not be as important to you. The mental training really did help with goal setting. I was surprised at how they had worksheets to dial in your goals and how to get there.
• Most important to me is the 4DP. SYSTM adjusts all of your targets for 4 output durations. My VO2 (MAP) and AC (one minute) power fade off more drastically in the late fall than my FTP. Thus my workouts would feel quite different if they were only based on FTP.
• New ProRides are honestly awesome. You are placed in real World Tour races using GoPro footage and then use ERG mode to mimic the rider. Fun and also has taught me a lot about riding in the peloton and a breakaway.
• More and more workouts added all the time. A huge selection of NoVid workouts now. Not close to as many as TR but more than I’ll ever need.
• They finally adjusted the workouts to avoid burnout. Anyone paying attention the last few years knows training is more effective if you leave a little in the tank. The Nine Hammers video was impossible to finish if you had accurate targets. That didn’t stop most of us from burying ourselves trying. I still can’t finish it though.
• Even before the workouts were nerfed, the training plans were still better than Zwift. Zwift caused me to take two weeks off after I burnt out 6 weeks in. Some of that could be due to targets that are based on FTP only but it also seemed that 5 out of 6 workouts a week were intervals.
Things I could do without:
• I don’t like the SYSTM calendar. Just not overall user friendly compared to other apps. I have a training peaks membership and importing the plan is no longer possible as WAHOO hopes to have their own calendar/fitness tracker competitor to Training Peaks soon. I won’t hold my breath.
• Not easy to move around the plans if you miss a week.
• I honestly don’t like most of the music on the old school videos. I mute the music and watch/listen to my own entertainment. Typically I overlay the workout onto the Zwift screen. On the other hand, the newer ProRides, On Location and A Week With videos all have great commentary.
• Never got into the Sufferfest humor. Laser goats and couchlandria, etc. It doesn’t bother me but adds no value. Others love it.
• Their podcast is very rough compared to AACC. Maybe AACC was that rough at the beginning. No one has topped Nate and Amber in my opinion. Jonathan is a smooth host and keeps things moving. (That skill is highly underrated.) Chad is great on the deep dives. I miss a couple of the others that aren’t on as much anymore. It is nice to hear a bit from the pros but talking on a podcast is an art and sometimes it can drag if the pros get off track.
• No extra feeling of accomplishment from the actual app. You can earn a badge for completing workouts but that’s about it. No levels like Zwift or Progressions like TR.
• Plans available have expanded but not enough.
• The 4DP test is difficult to pace. I’ve completed it a few times so it’s not an issue but for newbies, it’s rough. Xert does this calculation much better than anyone else. Almost crazy how accurately it predicts my current FTP and other durations by analyzing indoor or outdoor workouts. The decay rate (detraining) is spot on for me. Of course Xert takes a good bit of study to use effectively.
Unsure
• Swimming and running workouts. I use neither so can’t comment.
• Effectiveness compared to TR. Everyone is different. SYSTM certainly does not use polarized training in the way others do. I find it highly effective for my shorter races though. I podiumed on my first ever gravel race (35 miles) by following 6 months of the SYSTM XC mountain bike preseason plan. On the other hand my lack of endurance for longer races leaves me far behind. I am over 200 pounds though. Would a full TR plan work better for me? Which one? I would only know if I followed through it completely and compared.
