New HV Sustained Power build plan - not seeing much sustained power, not sure I am trusting this

The changes to the plan are indeed dramatic, and not something AT will address as it currently stands I think.

Whether the plan are ‘easier’ or ‘harder’ isn’t that relevant and I’m sure they’ll have been well thought out but their nature is very different. There is a world of difference between longer 5-7 minute intervals just over threshold and the shorter, higher intensity intervals that have generally longer recoveries. Better or worse, easier or harder is debatable but they are different in emphasis.

Even as you progress presumably AT will replace like with like and you’ll end up with harder versions of the shorter intervals and the 5-7 minute intervals will never be seen again.

One thing I think is a shame is there seems to be less differentiation between the Build plans unless my memory is going. IIRC eyeballing the plans as you move through Short, General, and Sustained builds as they stand now they are more homogenous than the previous versions.


Thanks for the screenshots :+1:

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Whoa, you’re right. I didn’t even read the text. Wonder if that is a mistake?

Well said.

The new plans are designed to work with AT. Recommend you check out a related discussion here, especially the replies from Jonathan.

Also this reply, where Jonathan specifically addresses the mix of VO2 and Threshold work in the new SusPB plans.

All of the plans work with AT, but only within its own framework. It doesn’t replace the float sets for example with the 5-8 minute supra threshold intervals of the last plan.

What I read is that while the Short and Sustained look superficially similar they are designed to differently target training adaptions.

I can accept that argument - it might be an improvement or it might not, time will tell. It is though a fairly significant departure from the plan it is replacing in the way it is structured.

I don’t think your memory is going, but are we really surprised? I think it is pretty well-established that VO2 max is the core of any aerobic building phase, and I’m not really surprised to see that the build phases are looking more similar; with the higher volume plans, the similarity in the endurance rides for volume is obvious. Building an aerobic engine shouldn’t look that different based on goal event; those differences should come in the specialty phase. At the extreme ends, of course, there will be differences (I’m sure that Lionel Sanders and Kate Courtney have very different approaches in a “build” phase), but in general the new plans look more rational to me.

(ticks an item off the bucket list) :slight_smile:

Those two different internal styles stress different metabolic systems. Short intervals with long rest typically dont stress the aerobic system as much as say your anaerobic glycolytic. I’m curious as to why tr has introduced so many of these workouts as vo2 workouts… 2 minute repeats at 110-115% and a 5 minute rest does not seem like a good vo2 workout.

Remains to be seen how TR AT evolves but at this point it’s one of my issues with TR stock plans. If you have low anaerobic capacity the short repeats would likely be better replaced by long vo2 intervals. And it’s hard to find a block that works on increasing anaerobic capacity (all out 1-2 minute intervals with say a 1:5 work:rest ratio). Coach Chad appears to have both a high vo2max and anaerobic capacity, and they appear to have done internal testing on a lot of young people with similar physiologies and 20-something ability to recover quickly. They took some of that edge off the previous plans and then curiously put it in Sustained Power Build :man_shrugging:

My guess is because the targets are not actually VO2 zone, but look like they are because FTP tends to be overestimated by TR users.

So, I think the goal is by doing these and slowly progressing the interval duration, you eventually pull your VO2 up to the absolute power numbers that are denoted as VO2.

Said another way, I think the primary philosophy is to pull fitness up by all the plans, and that is done by giving hard, consistently attainable, progressive workouts. It’s called a “VO2” just because that is technically the zone based on the input value for FTP, even though if it is hard to finish it probably isn’t actually as much VO2 and anaerobic.

I was looking through the new plans last week and I 100% agree with you. It’s not about making the plans less easy, it’s about making them less specific. I don’t understand why the suprathreshold repeats at 102-105% were removed from the plans in favor of VO2s with short floats- those are not working the same energy systems, and are not the same as mentally preparing for TTs or long climbs when you have to sit at threshold for 20-60mins.

To reduce the load/intensity, I would much rather have fewer intervals or shorter workouts in that suprathreshold range. But I fundamentally don’t agree with taking them out of the plan for VO2.

I’m currently engaged with TR support trying to get a workout listing for old plans. So far, the answer is “use the new plans, they are an upgrade and will work better.” Support was pretty adamant that “the new plans are going to get the most out of you on race day”. I like the optimism, I really do. What else are they going to say? They don’t seem to undestand that I’m not going to use the new plan out of the box any more than I used the old plan out of the box, so nobody knows if it’s gonna be better until I figure out an approach using the new plans and try it. I’m not willing to experiment much at this point with less then 3 months to go before a race I’ve been targeting for 3 years.

They are going to look into whether there is some record of the old plans, but they are not making any promises. I’m sure someone at TR has a record of the old plans, the real question is whether it’s worth their time and effort to make them available (and whether that hurts momentum toward the new stuff). I know they probably won’t want to make them publicly available because it all seems like a big push to the new plans and I assume they are trying to set the stage for AT. I’m all for pushing forward with new things, but AT isn’t even out yet and the new plans are an unknown quantity that I need to figure out before I decide what (if any) aspects I will use.

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I posted HV sustained power build above, click on the “screenshots here” to see them:

My prediction is that the first batch of people to jump in blind midstream will have amazing results. Because they will effectively be in an extended taper easing up the work and will ride a wave of great form for a few weeks while sharpening up VO2 into an amazing ramp test at the conclusion to overestimate huge ftp gainz. Thus the new plans are going to be a self fulfilling prophecy by design based on how they have been introduced.

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