Perhaps I should have been a bit clearer, I was talking about the baseline test only. What you wrote was what I was trying to get at - at least that’s what is trying to get out of my head and into words.
As a protocol the baseline isn’t very good for anything other than getting a feel of where your FTP is and I don’t think Kolie intended it to be anything other than that. If you’re not that close with you estimate there isn’t really that much scope for saying that based on the failure point I can call my FTP this: average power for a given time because that’s not what you’re actually doing in the test.
However, I think there are folk trying to say that they have done the baseline test and have a TTE of 35 minutes at a certain power. I just think you can’t say that for the reasons I gave above and you certainly can’t fail at the start of the ramp and claim a TTE of 25 minutes.
My own thought is that, as @RobertSims is suggesting, once you have dialed in where your think your FTP is with the baseline test, all that remains is to actually ride that to exhaustion maybe adjusting a little depending on how you feel during the test, which is exactly what progression 3 does. The other two test are problematic, again for the reasons of dipping into W’ and I really can’t see how they offer anything better that progression 3.
Just as a note, Progression 1 keeps the ramp and Progression 2 has an all out 5 minute effort at the end.
Why do cyclist like to reduce the length of test by going that wee bit harder?
Anyway, I quite enjoyed the baseline test and think it confirmed my FTP quite well.
Since I’m right here and I can hear you, I will give you my implicitly solicited thoughts. The article and tests evolved out of coaching a lot of people and sneaking FTP tests on them and learning where the hangups are. It’s why I always suggest you go back to the wko model to double check, but if you don’t it’s still close enough, even going past FTP. So take a step back and think about things from more than just the ivory tower ideal. I’ve got a pro on my roster who still uses progression 1, and they’re well aware (as am I) of the physiology behind ramping past FTP… and yet it’s still fine. You should think about why that is.
I finally got a decent ride in using this workout, tbh it may not have been the best day to do it as I was in a lab for 2.5 hours yesterday doing some testing but I felt pretty recovered, on a better day I may have eeked out 3 or 4 more Watts. I’ve been sat on 250W for a while and from this ride I set myself to 246. I did a 20 min stint during an RGT race last week of 273 so all in all it’s a decent enough number
Perhaps that’s the case and making the ramp to 105% over 20 minutes would give the same average power. Shame that 10 + 15 + 10-15, as stated in the article, does not ever equal 45. I agree that a little more clarity would be good.
That is a little confusing. Here’s the text written in to the workout:
> To get FTP, assuming you’ve ridden at least ~25 minutes, just manually select from the start of the test interval to where you stopped in workout analysis - the average power is your result.
Does this not imply that as long as you “survive” the 10min + 15min that you can use this as an estimate? I took the test at a 10% lower than ramp test estimate and barely survived the 25min. So I used the average of that as my new FTP.
I am actually questioning how well this new value works with the TR LV plans, as my workouts have gone from hard but doable, down to pretty easy. I realize that the ramp value is incorrect for what I can do for a true hour, but it seems to work with their workout plans
If you have barely survived 25 min this is definitely not your FTP. If workouts become rarher easy - this is how TR threshold and SS workouts suppose to be. Your real FTP can test with long, sustained intervals or workouts with around 60 min TiZ. Many TR workouts have rather short intervals and long brakes. Longer SST workouts like Galena with correct FTP suposed to be unconvinient at most. You will feel threshold with workouts like 3x15, 4x15, 3x20 etc.
For sure. I do not for a second think that my “FTP” from that test is my true 1-hr power. But what my actual true 1-hr power is not relevant for me. I am only interested in Enduro and XC racing, where I race on RPE & feel and never pace using power.
What I want feedback on is this:
I use “ramp test” FTP. I complete all my workouts, but they are hard.
2, I use this still inflated number from the KM P1, the workouts are now easy.
I test again, further lowering my FTP. The workout should become really easy
I do not have a coach. I will be using the low volume TR plans. Given all this. What number will give me the biggest gains? It would be great if I can significantly reduce my RPE and get the same results
After playing with these protocols, traditional 20min test, ramp…seems like I’m in the (minority?) of people where the estimated FTP of the 3 types of test are pretty close to each other. H
Bear in mind that most people who get close-enough results with the first FTP test they try don’t come on the forums looking for alternatives. The participants in this thread are somewhat self-selected.
Dunno, in 2017 I tested 8-min vs 20-min vs 60-min and they were all aligned. Then I tested ramp and it was aligned with longer tests, and then it wasn’t, and then it was. So the ramp test is hit or miss. I won’t recap the reasons, it just is.
Beyond that, its my personal opinion that:
longer tests are better for a lot of reasons
you don’t need to test every 4 weeks - at my 220-260W FTP minor 3-5W bumps up/down are just noise
The kolie moore and ramp do give me fairly similar results too (within 5W)…however I like the Kolie moore test more as a) It’s a really good workout in itself and b) gives LOT of confidence to KNOW you can hold that power level for 40+ mins (instead of just hoping you can with ramp test).
My two test were only 3W apart. I don’t think it’s rare that they agree, there’s a reason TR settled on the ramp test, it works for a large amount of people with “non-outlier” fitness (not extremely aerobic or extremely anaerobic).
Maybe unrelated, but competition and or demanding group rides…in general, a variety of settings to test your limits is very useful. I do 99.9% of my riding alone, so I’m lacking in that aspect.
The other day there were two guys on the road going somewhat fast, I decide to join their train, there was some wind against us and they were taking turns pulling. I decided to collaborate + the competitive juices led me to put some crazy numbers that I didn’t think were in the cards for a rider at my stage of development.
Bear in mind that the workout/text has nothing to do with Kolie Moore, it started out as a workout I knocked up for myself to give some idea of the structure, then people wanted to use it so I shared it and made all the variations (and some extra ones!). At the time we were trying to work out how long you’d need to go to have a ‘real’ number, and the general consensus was ‘at least 25 minutes, otherwise you’re just doing a 20 minute test!’
In other news, happy with this one from earlier - finally got the hang of pacing and used a judgement call to ignore the ramp as I could tell I was right on the edge - best TTE I’ve ever managed on one of these
sorry searched the thread - Yes there is “1628-team-gold”
