KickrV5 - drift in ERG-mode?

Equipment
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#123

So I dug into this a bit last night on a workout. While only an hour, virtually every post in this thread shows drift by the 40ish minute marker, so I figured I’d at least see something there. Short version: Zero drift during the test (Slide Mountain -2)

Here’s the data set: https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/#/public/0ff220a8-9975-4947-63d3-1260595d82ac

Setting aside the complete dropout festival that happened between the SRM X and FR745 on the first interval, or that it was oddly lower than the rest - there was zero drifting differences between the KICKRv5 and the Quarq DZero, or even the SRM-X (again, ignoring the dropouts/offset).

For this test I did no warm-up and no calibration of any units, nor did I ever stop pedaling (as to not give the KICKR a chance to auto re-cal). From a gearing standpoint I was small ring up front, and almost the easiest ring on the back. Temperature in the DCR Studio was constant, at about 73F/23C according to the Edge device on the table. This is on the latest production V5 firmware.

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#124

Thanks for looking into this Ray.

My kickr is super consistent drifting with respect to my faveros over the course of a workout. Not by much - it might start 1% higher and end 2% lower - but the trend is always the same and always there.

I must admit that I always run my TR workouts in the big ring up front so the thing I’ll try next is doing a workout with easier gearing…

#125

One thing I would note in your data @dcrainmaker is that while the offset between your wahoo and the quark is clearly acceptable throughout - you are getting a drift in the same direction that I and others experience.

The first interval in your data shows the kickr at +1.2% and the third at +0.2% with the second interval around half way between at +0.5%

I 100% agree that this is fine - but what I am going to try is:

  1. replicate your data as close as I can - Watts and gearing
  2. replicate your gearing but with more watts if I can
  3. more watts and my usual gearing

My predication is that my unit might perform at good as yours when the experiment is replicated but will get worse when I increase the watts and/or flywheel speed.

Thanks again for looking into it.

#126

Yeah, I think drift at 1% and under would be acceptable. One thing though to keep in mind is that I purposefully didn’t re-calibrate either the Quarq or SRM (or KICKR), as such, we’re just as likely seeing the Quarq drift/temp shift as well. The last time I would have ridden this combo was about 15 days ago (was using other smart bikes during this time), and we’ve been in a cold snap so the DCR Cave temp would have definitely shifted (it’s just a giant warehouse and floats constantly).

I’ll do my next workout at a higher wattage for sure. My legs were somewhat shot yesterday and this was the mental compromise I made. :slight_smile:

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#127

So, I have now been able to do some more testing on my new trainer.
(All on newest firmware, small chainring front, mid cog-ish on cassette)

So from the start my new trainer reads about the same as my old one in the start (+2% to +6%). My old trainer stabilized with PM reading about -2-3% in the start and allmost identical at the end. I have been doing factory spindowns after each ride except last one. The dec23 and jan11 rides are the one that are most similar to where I left off my old trainer, what they have in common is that the rides before (dec22 and jan9) where long rides.

I have had limited time lately, so the length of rides have varied. Last dataset was pretty nice, so think Im gonna skip the spindowns now and see how it acts. If im gonna do more spindowns I will do it after a long ride.

To summarize I would say that the new trainer drifts similar to the old one. Drifts seems quite consistent, level of over/under-reading seems to vary with length of ride(temperature of trainer?) done before doing factory spindown.

#128

Are we? Im guessing my Quarq/Duos maybe gets a couple of degrees hotter during a workout(temperature of the room), but my Kickr flywheel starts at maybe 18-20 degrees and end up at maybe 60-80 degrees? Im just guessing here, but it gets really warm.

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#129

No, I’m referring to the fact that the Quarq algorithm has to temp-adjust when it first turns on. Since my Quarq had been sitting for almost two weeks, I have zero idea what the temp was back then.

Most power meter companies will take about 10 or so mins to temp comp, because they want to avoid scenarios like going through a short section of hot pavement being picked up by the temp sensors (via air) but not yet impacting the strain gauge on metal/carbon properties.

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#130

Ah, I see. I calibrate both my Quarq and Assioma before every workout, they seem to be very consistent. Anyways its winter here in Norway so the bike/PMs is allways indoor and temperature is pretty stable from workout to workout.

Anyways, appreciate your effort, allways nice to get input/data from one of the legends in the game! :slight_smile:

#131

Do you have an older Quarq that doesn’t auto-zero?

#133

Nope, it’s a brand new DZero. But the autozero algorithm only works when it’s turned on, and the dynamic temp compensation also only works when powered on, and thus both of those have to turn on and stabilize (which takes about 10 or so mins for most power meters to smooth the temp readings, as to avoid issues with briefly transient air masses of hot/cold air).

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#134

Are you in an environment controlled studio (air conditioned/heated)? I’m wondering if that has any bearing compared to people’s garages?

#135

It’s heated (no A/C) but there’s no dial control. Just a few radiators throughout the warehouse/industrial space, so while it’s stable within a day (due to the size), it fluctuates from day to day because there’s no thermostat to control it.

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#136

Ok not sure if this is a piece of the puzzle but here’s some observations I made tonight during my workout.

Setup:
PM : Favero Assioma DUO
Trainer : KICKRV5
Other : PowerMatch NEW

I started the workout by zero offsetting the Assioma and made a Spindown with the Kickr.

At some point during the rest intervals of workout I stopped pushing on the pedals and coasted 3-5seconds. From there the the power between the Assioma and the Kickr started to create a gap. The readings from the kickr started to decrease VS the Assioma.

Midway through I did another spindown of the kickr (did not recalibrate pedals). Then the Kickr and the Assioma started to report almost 1:1 until the end of the workout. (I did not coasted or stopped pushing on the pedals after the 2ns spindown)

It’s like if the Kickr tried to recalibrate itself if you “coast” even just a small bit even if the ERG was trying to control the resistance from the Powermatch reading.

Again, not sure this is the issue but could be a piece of the puzzle.

I forgot to record both files but I will try to recreate this during my next workout and save both files for comparaison.

#137

Wahoo just pushed Firmware 4.1.2 and it looks manual spindown is back! Perhaps this will solve our issues! Im hopeful

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#138

Is there anything in the changelog whether it will still “auto” calibrate as well, or do we need to go back to manual calibration all the time now?

#139

The main site is not updated with the info yet, but maybe soon.

#140

Jan 13: https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/#/public/f4cc1aa9-b56a-4e9b-6db2-442af04db394

Not sure if I want any firmware updates now :slight_smile:

#141

Is that the new firmware?

#142

No, this is firmware 4.1.1 from december 21th.

#143

So what’s your secret then :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

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