Is there a specific workout for 5s sprints?

Training
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I see officially there are ones for 30s but not 5s. My 5s sprint is currently below cat 5 according to coggan scale and probably why I can’t do anything but do a diesel drag people in my cat 3 races just training my 30s over and over. My goal is to leverage favero power matched ERG mode on my tacx neo 2 trainer, but the workout builder maxes out at 300% FTP (3x324w) which is only 972w at 86kg (11w/kg), so probably have to find another software to control the trainer above that.

Edit looks like I found a way. I had to make the workout in TrainingPeaks and then pull the workout into TrainerRoad:

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This gave the workout a ridiculous 133 sprint rating.

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Shasta? Berryessa? Fuji? I think the main thing is doing these outside and just treating them as maximal efforts, not worrying about target watts. I.e. Go off as hard as you can and hold on, if 20 seconds seems like an eternity you’re doing it right.

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Just do about an hour’s endurance riding and sprinkle in an all-out sprint every 8 to 10 minutes. No need for a specific workout, really, imo :+1:

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The thing is that I want to do them on the trainer. It just doesn’t happen outside. I rarely have any productive workouts outside, so rely on TR with my tacx neo 2 and power matched with my faveros. The watts do matter on a coggan scale and I’m trying to progress towards at least cat 5 watts.

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Are you using resistance mode instead of erg mode? Erg mode really isn’t good for short intervals with big power jumps, by the time the resistance has got to where it needs to be you’re halfway through the interval.

I’m not saying watts don’t matter. I’m saying the goal of those short sprint intervals with long recoveries is to go as hard as you can, not pacing yourself to a target.

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5 second sprints are basically neuromuscular and PCr energy system. Its a bit harder practicing them inside, but you can do them. My best were done using Kickr direct drive (PowerMatch) and slope mode where resistance increases the ‘faster’ you go. Resistance mode is too much hassle. I’m thinking that with a Tacx Neo2 you are better off doing them letting Zwift control the trainer in sim mode. And I’d practice different sprints from 5-20 seconds, and not do all of them at 5-seconds.

When I do 20 second sprints it feels like an eternity like @cartsman said earlier. One thing I learned over 6+ months of doing sprint workouts - my best are done coming in around 90rpm and most power is 110-120rpm and I end at around 150rpm. So if I’m going for max power during training, when outside I shoot for that cadence and do them on hills around 6% (something else I learned). That’s something to look at over time.

Whatever you do, give yourself enough time between sprints to recharge, anywhere from 8-15 minutes. That will work on your capacity and max power. At some point you can switch to repeatability.

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I got this from somewhere other than TR but it works great:

20 second all out sprint followed by 1:40 very light pedaling. Repeat 4 times. (No target, just all out).
8 to 10 minutes recovery
Repeat 4 times for a total of 16 (4x4)

Works way better outside than on the trainer since outside you can fully work on sprint technique. I have a half mile street in my neighborhood that has no cross traffic and I can fit in 1 or 2 each way so its easy to do outdoors almost anywhere if you look.

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Honestly, your best bet is to throw some shoes on after your ride and do 6-10 second running hill sprints.

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Blockquote Honestly, your best bet is to throw some shoes on after your ride and do 6-10 second running hill sprints.

That would be great if running could win me bike races but they can’t. I mean you could argue otherwise but I would have to be already in the world class athlete club, which it appears you are with your watts/kg. I’m glad that works for you but I’m trying to do something specific with my trainer. It appears this is a software limitation that even with the workout builder, the intervals max out at 300% ftp. So if I want a cat 5 sprint I have to increase my FTP to 450w which is ridiculous.

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Just put it at 300% and use resistance mode and overshoot it by however much you can manage? If it’s in erg than both you and the trainer would need to shift seamlessly from 75% to 400% or so. Also, you’d need to have a pretty good idea what you could actually do before (hypothetically) setting it. All of that occurring doesn’t seem likely.

That said, personally I’d do a workout like that outside.

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There is a 1 second delay usually after the interval starts and after it ends. In the end it gets the job done at the specific targets. It’s obvious that it’s a limitation with trainerroad software. I will just have to build my custom workouts in trainingpeaks and stop asking questions here because everyone seems to be obsessed with training outside.

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hey just trying to help, we aren’t obsessed we just know that if you want to add a couple hundred watts to your sprint you must practice it outside. I don’t recall a TR sprinting video on training inside, it was outside for a reason.

Once your neuromuscular fundamentals are in place, a sprint is not that trainable. Its not like pushing up your FTP. Inside I can do seated 5-sec sprints up to about 950W, outside adds another 200W. When inside seated vs standing doesn’t really matter, except that inside standing sprints are awkward and wrong technique. Don’t practice or try to optimize bad technique.

Inside and seated seems fine to work on the brain-body connection to quickly recruit a lot of muscles on demand. Seriously, I can reliably do more power seated in Zwift or RGT than in Erg. Go ahead and walk away from the advice, but you are the one that wants to boost power. Use the right tool.

When it comes to sprinting, think what they do on the track. Force production is developed in the gym. Lots of endurance and FTP work will develop faster recovery.

Have fun and good luck.

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That’s great. I have been training since 2015 including 3.5 years with a coach. I pulled some old trainingpeaks indoor workouts from him and without any mental gymnastics they were at the outputs I was looking for. Also I wouldn’t be doing anything I have done preco.

| WindWarrior
August 20 |

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hey just trying to help, we aren’t obsessed we just know that if you want to add a couple hundred watts to your sprint you must practice it outside. I don’t recall a TR sprinting video on training inside, it was outside for a reason.

Once your neuromuscular fundamentals are in place, a sprint is not that trainable. Its not like pushing up your FTP. Inside I can do seated 5-sec sprints up to about 950W, outside adds another 200W. When inside seated vs standing doesn’t really matter, except that inside standing sprints are awkward and wrong technique. Don’t practice or try to optimize bad technique.

Inside and seated seems fine to work on the brain-body connection to quickly recruit a lot of muscles on demand. Seriously, I can reliably do more power seated in Zwift or RGT than in Erg. Go ahead and walk away from the advice, but you are the one that wants to boost power. Use the right tool.

When it comes to sprinting, think what they do on the track. Force production is developed in the gym. Lots of endurance and FTP work will develop faster recovery.

Have fun and good luck.

14

Road sprinter here.

5 second power is technique and neural drive.

Any real time structured training is kind of pointless. The two largest drivers of 5sec power increase are, 5sec sprints and weight training. You can make very substantial gains just sprinting, but long term, you’d need to add weight training to hit your best.

Unless you are trying to win Zwift races, I’d 1000% recommend doing them outside. The technique is different and most athletes make significantly more power. Which is the point of the training. Additionally, more important than your power is your timing. You have to practice sprinting to an actual finish line. Timing is everything in a sprint. You cannot and will not, learn that on your trainer.

You need to be well rested and well fueled. Simply do a ride. Once you’ve warmed up, including a few short 20sec ramps over threshold and a gentle first 5sec sprint at 75% max, then give it the beans…

You don’t need to do many. 4 or 5 is ample. Keep doing this weekly until you see no further gains. From there, you’ll need to add weight training to progress.

If it helps, the Coggan sprint numbers are from track sprinters, it has no bearing on road cyclists at all. That graph is pile of garbage and needs to be burned in a fire.

Road cyclists do not need to be doing 25w/kg for 5 sec. In fact, they can’t.

The best amateur road sprinters top out around 20w/kg 5sec.

Most amateurs don’t need anything like that to be competitive. In fact the more I race and watch others race, the more I’ve learnt that 5sec sprint power is mostly irrelevant. That’s not the metric that wins races. It’s actually your 15sec power that should be your focus.

A short sharp power profile is very hard to win with. I should know, as that’s what I started with. You need incredible timing and a very safe run in to win with high 5sec power.

A powerful 10 - 20sec sprint is what actually wins races on the road.

I’d say 14w/kg for 15s is solid. Anything higher, fantastic. If you can hit anything like that at the end of a race, you’ll do fine.

15sec power should be the power metric road sprinters focus on.

Finally, remember sprints aren’t won by the highest power numbers. It’s a very simple formula…

1. Position
2. Timing
3. Power

You’ll notice that power is 3rd. Without the correct position and the precise timing of your sprint, you could have a billion watts, you’ll still loose…

(Well maybe a billion watts would win a few races :joy:)

Hope that helps.

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Thanks I am not interested in using Zwift. I had some unresolved tech glitches with them that their support basically told me to deal with and I’ll never be competitive in Zwift due the massive height penalty. Yes I reduced it before but got flagged for height doping. I have reduced my cda irl by running slammed on a short stack allez sprint with a 150mm stem but tall people are assumed to be on penny farthing’s.

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Just listen to @TheBandit

Amen.

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More mental gymnastics. I asked for a specific TrainerRoad workout to improve my 5s power. I found out that it’s impossible in TrainerRoad software due to not allowing above 300% ftp and now you got people chiming in about outside and what works for them for claiming victory.

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I don’t know if there is one, but you don’t need one, imo.

Search the workout library for ‘free’. Load one of those. Ride. Throw in some all-out sprints every 8 to 10 mins.

Grab as big a gear as you can turn the pedals at 50rpm, then smash it.

:sunglasses:

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19

Just change the trainer mode in resistance/slope mode and rip the sprints. Doing sprints in erg mode defeats the purpoise of sprint work. The suggestions about training them outside are fully reasonable - on the trainer your power will be always limited by static nature of the trainer, hence your power will be lower. With sprint training you want max power you can create physically. Without max power in the sprints you leave a lot behind. So you can be frustraited but the answers lead to good training. Yes TR is limited to 300% in erg mode and this completely does not matter as erg mode is just bad mode for sprint efforts, especially that short.

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Read this:

Just ask if you want more background. The big gains are increasing muscle mass in the gym, and technique on the bike. This isn’t like training to raise your FTP which can be easily accomplished on the trainer or on the road.