🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

Anything new / bugs I should be aware of? Doing an FTP test next week and was going to turn adaptive training back on so get myself dialled in.

Did this one today on a stages spin bike (we’re away from home for a couple of weeks). If anything is going to be a super pass for me, it’s this, though I’m fairly certain there’s some power drift with the stages spin bike so I’m not really sold on the exact wattages.

I don’t think one interval would provide a “Super Pass”, at least one interval slightly below doesn’t trigger a fail either :man_shrugging:.

1 Like

Well they were all over the target, just had one highlighted

Fair enough, I couldn’t really tell. I don’t think “Super Pass” is implemented. I was just adding a tiny bit of anecdote as I was under on my most recent VO2 session on the last interval but still was successful overall.

A few people have done sessions a solid 25% above the target power and not triggered super pass. If it exists, it’s surprisingly hard to get!

I was planned for Leconte (Reach). I had moved it so I know it was not getting adaptations. I selected an alternate workout, Tunemah (Threshold 4.8). My Current Threshold PL was 2.4. I completed the workout but had to backpedal to get through the last two “overs.” I rated the workout at a 4/5. A day later I still see now bump in any of my PLs as a result. Workout has no classification (Stretch) which it had before I did it, and it it shows “+/-0” on that line.

Is this normal?

I just read a reply to the same question on another forum. It sounds like the fact that I rated it Very Hard may have inhibited PL improvement.

I need to clarify my ratings of rides perhaps.

Is there a generally accepted scale for rating workouts yet? Does it matter or is it just about consistency within my ratings? For example in my head I am going to use: 2 - recovery ride 3 - intensity that was easy to handle 4 - challenging but achievable (where a propper tr workout should be) 5 - all my grit to complete, just about to explode!

My thinking is if i rate a hard but manageable workout a 4 constantly and most of the user base say 3 will I get ‘less adaption’? Does it matter how my rating system compares to the rest of the group or is it about consistency in my ratings?

There is no universal rating system. TR has stated the best rating is the honest one you give. Just rate it how you feel it should be rated. AT is comparing you to you. A 4 for me may be different than a 4 for you and that’s totally fine and acceptable because it’s not comparing me to you or you to me for progression levels. Consistency with yourself is all that matters.

2 Likes

I agree that this is what was stated on the podcast, but after working through issues with customer service with AT issues, they convinced me to use hard but manageable as Moderate (2), Hard (3) for workouts where I couldn’t really have done more, Very Hard (4) where there is difficulty/slight failure getting through.

This essentially shifted ratings down for me, but it helped adaptations kick-in.

3 Likes

Good advice from Support. I found quickly that using Hard triggered undesired consequences in adaptations, especially if i had chosen a harder alternate on the day, so i reserve it’s use for when i think i prefer a slower ramp rate (like Threshold at the moment).

With respect to the impact of Hard responses after choosing harder alternatives, Support explained in words to the effect that if i choose a harder alternative and then mark the response as Hard, it is giving a signal to AT that the move up was maybe a bit too much.

My default is Moderate, which is like my Green light to carry on as planned. As i said, Hard is used when i want to signal i don’t want the ramp rate increased (or maybe even decreased). This seems to have the desired effect for me and the adaptations coming through make sense as a whole.

5 Likes

After a ramp test my progression levels reset to 1, is that intended behaviour or a bug?

@trijdc @PotsieA Would you folks be willing to quote the responses from Support in here? I’m super interested to know what they said!

Your progression levels will drop when your FTP increases. If your levels were around 2-3 before the increase, they may drop to around 1. What were your levels before?

2 Likes

Sure

From the looks of it, since Sleeping Beauty was an easier Workout , and you’ve passed a Foerster marking it as “Hard”, the ideal progression would have wanted you to stick to an easier VO2 Max Workout. Bringing this down to “Moderate” will slightly bump up your next VO2 Max efforts for a progression to make sense! However, If you were still expecting harder VO2 Workouts, then doing as you have done (using Alternates to get a hard VO2 Workout) is substantial enough for AT to take into consideration, so long as the progression makes sense :slight_smile:

2 Likes

The chat referred to a couple of issues but here is the part pertaining to this question:

(04:22:25 PM) Bryce L: In the future, I think recalibrating your Survey Responses considering Moderate the “middle” option will help things progress better in the future.
(04:22:47 PM) trijdc: And I have been consistent with rating. Hard is “as expected - got through each interval with a little to spare” Very Hard “got through but it was really tough” moderate -easier than I thought given workout type
(04:22:59 PM) Bryce L: See how your next Tuesday workout goes, answer honestly, and I think that the Thursday Workout will adapt-up at that time.
(04:23:08 PM) trijdc: Ok that helps
(04:24:09 PM) Bryce L: I understand, and I think better messaging can be around that.
Easy - Easier than expected
Moderate - As expected
Hard - A bit of a challenge to finish successfully
Very Hard - Had to take some extra recovery, really struggled but made it though
(04:24:55 PM) trijdc: Ok that helps - basically, I need to shift down one :slight_smile:

3 Likes

I’m done with the first half of short power build HV and I think aside from the first round of adaptations when the plan started I haven’t had any changes in the past 3 weeks, and only have a few going forward. I really like the 4 and 5 level stuff I’m getting for vo2 so far and it definitely gives me confidence going into workouts that they’re going to be quality and achievable

2 Likes

Any recommendations on strategy / best practice for choosing alternate workouts when you feel TR is underestimating your PL after a ramp test?

Case in point: I’m in the beta since last Tuesday (June 29). Last (finished) TR ride was Virginia on May 19 and in June it was just unstructured (long, upto 600km) outdoor rides. Ramp test was -2W compared to the last one on March 24. Estimated PL for endurance upto VO2Max were in the low 2’s

Wednesday was an “easy” endurance ride, PL 1.1; instead replaced with a stretch → +1.2 PL (easy)
Thursday was an “medium” sweet spot, stretched to +1.9 (easy)
Saturday “medium” threshold, stretched to +2.2 (moderate)
Sunday “easy” sweet spot, stretched to +1.3 (moderate)

Should I have chosen for break through workouts instead? Also, what about the “easy” days in the schedule, take it easy regardless or stretch when you feel like it? Esp. the Wednesdays: a one hour PL 1.1 endurance ride is scheduled every week but that is just recovery for a randonneur like me :laughing: (unfortunately I don’t have the time on Wednesday to do longer rides).

Scheduled tomorrow is Monitor +2, a 1:15 hour PL 5.1 sweet spot ride; I’m inclined to up this to something like Tallac +2, 1:30 at PL 6.5. Reasonable?

Just starting to checkout AT. Am I right in the following assumptions?:

  • any type of outdoor workout using wahoo won’t count
  • anytime I move a workout due to scheduling conflict, it will no longer count for AT
  • anytime I have to workout without power eg business travel hotel gym workout on spin bike also won’t count even if I wear a heart rate monitor
  • there is no way to manually set my levels for my own progression monitoring eg endurance which I currently do mostly outside in the summer but indoors in the winter - a manual override could be a neat idea!

Currently, this is correct. You can, however, still fill out the surveys for them for when it is up and running. They just aren’t getting credited by AT due to a bug at the moment.

Moving it makes it ineligible to be adapted. Completing a workout after it is moved will still contribute to progression levels and as such may trigger adaptations of future workouts. As such, if you move a workout right now, the best practice is to wait until the day you had it scheduled before moving it to ensure it got all the adaptations it would have gotten.

This I am not sure about. You can do Heart Rate TSS on it, but I don’t believe it will change progression levels.

Not at the moment. Some users above have created their own spreadsheets and things to keep track though.

Best option is to swap out the workout for something in time/length/distance to what your effort will be on the ride using the Alternates feature. Alternatively, just go on a long ride without a TR workout and when AT uses “unstructured rides”, it would presumably be picked up.

3 Likes