I had McGregor +1 (3 x 20 @ 92% with 1-minute breaks during each 20-minute interval) on the calendar today with my usual modifications to lengthen the warmup and more intensity during longer recovery intervals. Due to three days in a row of below average sleep I had to dial it down to 88%. AT still rated it as a pass even though I was expecting to get the āstruggleā survey at the end. Also, it shows as a Breakthrough tempo workout (probably because I dialed it down to the low end of sweet spot) but downgraded my tempo PL by -0.2.
My sweet spot PL has been at 8.3 for a while even though I havenāt completed a sweet spot workout at that level in three weeks (26 June). Now, in fairness to AT, I inserted a recovery week due to family visiting and did a longer outdoor ride last weekend instead of the prescribed workouts.
No complaints, just find it interesting. Below is a screen capture of the completed workout from the TR app as well as two custom graphs that Iām using to track changes in my PLs over time (both show the same data, just in different formats).
I do this as well. I often also add TrainNow workouts if I am looking for a little extra work that week or day. If you move your scheduled workout, it will no longer be adapted or changed if an adaptation is accepted. However, as I understand it, once accomplished, it will contribute to future adaptations like adding a workout should do (again as I understand it.). If I move a workout I do so at the last minute. If I skip one I will drop a planned day off on top of it at the last minute.
Iām sure this has been mentioned (and Iām equally sure Iāve read it).
Started a new plan today. Added to calendar via Plan Builder, no shuffling of workouts, all workouts being done outdoors.
Did Ritter (Threshold 5.2) and pretty much nailed it - the āoversā in the first set were slightly low as I eased off before the interval ended but those in later sets were all well above the target power.
Got home, saved the ride and it was uploaded to Garmin then pulled into TR. I refreshed the Calendar via the website and was offered adaptations. AT knocked 0.8 off the level and changed the next workout. At this point I hadnāt even been offered a survey. When I opened up the ride, I got the failure survey, chose āI didnāt struggleā then selected āModerateā from the pass survey. No further adaptations were offered.
Is there an assumption that the survey (pass or fail) has been completed prior to accepting adaptations? I donāt use the app away from the trainer so it may be that this is a āraceā condition in the calendar: refreshing the calendar instigates the adaptations but without refreshing it you canāt get to the workout to fill out the survey to say you didnāt fail!
without seeing the power graph my guess is going well above target is the reason for fail survey. And since I joined the beta several weeks ago, it appears that once AT deems it a fail, selecting āI didnāt struggleā will not update PLs.
(side note: IMHO fail is the wrong term)
speculating based on your reportā¦ it appears that once AT deems a workout fail then it proceeds down the adaptation path without regard to the survey.
it does look like you hit some traffic lights mid-intervals (I hate auto-pauseā¦). And that is a tough over/under structure to hit outside if AT is using strict compliance to target as criteria for pass/fail survey.
Here is Echo -3 in Garmin Connect so you can see the targets:
@AlphaDogCycling is right, support@trainerroad.com! Thanks for contributing, the more feedback we receive, the better we can do as a team to isolate issues and identify common points of confusion that are easily preventable! Cheers.
Actually I was riding the same road back and forth, no lights but I had to pause the workout near the end of the road before it met a busy main road then turn round and start things up again.
Being able to tell AT that it isnāt a āfailedā workout before it makes its judgements would seem to be rather pertinent.
About a 9 second turnaround from threshold back to threshold power. My preference is to (always) keep the clock running and add some time at the end (= shorten the recovery interval). No significant drop in heart rate or breathing on that turnaround. Again Iād say that is personal preference. On the other hand, auto-pause drops data and distorts the picture so I turn it off.
Although its software, not sure how easy that would be for TR to implement. Unless it uses that info to zero out the workoutās PL and plan adjustments.
@bobw in any case, I agree with your point and would fire off an email to support.
So w/ wahoo units they donāt get the ID of the workoutā¦ but likeā¦ what am I missing here? Itās on the calendar? It seems like this is a no-brainer. When I ride outside, it already matches the ride I did with the workout that was on the calendar by default and if I didnāt do that workout I have to go in and manually set it to say that it was an unplanned ride.
I get that for rides not on the calendar they need some way to associate with a workoutā¦ but isnāt that the less frequent case?
I hit pause at the end of one of the 15sec intervals, slow, turn round, start pedalling and hit start and then do the subsequent 45sec interval so I wasnāt interrupting any of the intervals. I might have missed the exact point by a second or two but no more than that.
My point about the ordering is that AT is meant to take into account how you answer the survey (whichever one is presented) but when you use the Calendar itās already made the adaptations before you get the chance to do so. (just seen your updated post that agrees with that)
Whereās the right place to whinge about Plan Builder? I wasnāt using it before AT so Iāve only just started playing with it really as otherwise I donāt get adaptations.
I had an event scheduled 15th August (set it as A just for plan builder reasons but its only a sportive really), but Iāve now entered a 6hr MTB event 26th September. So I followed what I thought I was meant to do and put in a new plan backdated to when I started the old plan.
Before I did that I had a rest week scheduled next week, which I feel like I really needed as Iāve had 4 hard weeks in a row including a 10hr ride last weekend. But PB has switched the rest week for another work week next week which I donāt think I can doā¦ If you backdate it why doesnāt it look at what youāve done so far and schedule something more sensible?
I also find the time off adjustments useless - it seems to just skip those workouts. Iāve had a couple of weeks where Iāve been away but with the bike, so Iād rather have those set as rest weeks. There needs to be a function to specify when you want your rest weeks to be I think (or to force PB to treat a week off as a rest week).
At the moment Iām finding PB more annoying than just using the fixed blocks and rearranging them like I did before AT - but because I am in AT I am forced to use PB even though itās not helping me.
Itās not like I was wholesale changing the plans or anything before - all I would do was push/pull the odd week and move workout days based on other commitments. But both of these break the link with PB.
Guess it is a case of choosing your training religion and living by the rules. It also seems to me that what Coach Chad says on deep dives, and what the TR platform does, can be two different things. And this wouldnāt be the first time Iāve seen fitness gains despite going against conventional TR wisdomā¦ Like Nate says, more than one way to get fast!
Has anyone else noticed inconsistencies with progression levels? Yes, I refreshed the webpage and I relaunched the application and both still display differences.
Also, is it normal for a recovery ride to drop progression despite marking it easy?
Anyone else not being asked to answer survey after completing outside workouts? Confusing.
Looked at yesterdays workout and instead of seeing Missing Response on web app, all Iām seeing is a really tiny ā?ā and in mobile/desktop apps it shows Success. That seems odd and incorrect behavior.
Here are steps from last night:
Custom workout on TR calendar (came from TrainingPeaks)
completed outside on Garmin
on TR web app, pulled up workout and edited name
And today:
shows missing response under Recent Workouts on Career page (web)
shows as Success in mobile and desktop apps
shows as ? on web
in web app I navigate to workout, click on ? and can answer āI didnāt struggle with this workout"
in mobile app (latest beta) I navigate to workout, click on Success and āHow did this effort feel?ā appears without any responses listed. Unable to update survey on mobile app.
in desktop app (latest beta) I navigate to workout, click on āā¦" and select āUpdate Survey Responseā and there is no āI didnāt struggle with this workoutā
Issues:
after completing an outside custom workouts I am not asked to rate on web, mobile, or desktop apps
three different apps, confusing that there are three different UIs to update survey
web app shows missing response, mobile and desktop show Success
unable to update survey on latest mobile beta app
desktop beta app missing the option āI didnāt struggle with this workoutā
I turned it off a week ago and rebuilt my training plan. Yet after many workouts it is still trying to offer me adaptations within the app which is really annoying since Iām doing lots of outside workouts that are not recognized. Quit trying to make my plan easier! Report submitted still waiting to hear the outcome
Ok, can somebody tell me if this sounds right?? I completed a workout with a PL below my current PL. I rated it Moderate because it did have 60 minutes of tempo. I could easily have done more but it wasnāt easy.
My progression level then got reduced by -1.
I contacted support and this is the response it go back:
"Thank you for reaching out to our Customer Support team! =)
It seems as though your Progression Level was 5.4 and then you completed Cumberland -2 which has a level of 4.4. Your progression Level dropped because the rideās progression level was lower than your progression level. This means that Adaptive Training is working correctly! I would not stress about this because Progression Levels are not an indication of fitness and you should rather focus on improving your FTP."
What theā¦. Am I reading this incorrectly?? @IvyAudrain?
lol.
Report submitted still waiting to hear the outcome