🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

Just to check, do you mean reset to 1.0?

yes

Looks like you should contact support then. That was supposedly fixed.

Great, thanks!

I passed this on to Support as well as a feedback data point for them, but figured I’d post it here too. I manually bumped my FTP down a few notches today and I was curious to see what would happen to my Progression Levels. I heard/saw on the forum that there was a bug that reset everything to 4.0 that had been fixed, but I’m pretty disappointed with the results on my change–it truly doesn’t make any sense. Somehow my Endurance got slashed by 3 points (which is the strongest right now deep into base building), my Sweet Spot went up 1.1 and my Threshold went up 1.5… It seems completely random (and therefore pretty useless). Note that some of the levels probably weren’t super accurate to begin with based on my last FTP setting change a couple months ago also causing the algorithm to forget all the useful workout data that came before the change.

ETA: I haven’t done any workouts since the FTP change–these were the settings immediately before/after the change.

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I think that’s my main issue with “letting Adaptive Training take control”. I can’t / wont whilst it’s clear that many of the decisions it’s making make no sense whatsoever.

I’m hoping it’ll eventually sort itself out, but in the mean time I’ll be second guessing everything.

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Can I use TrainNow whilst waiting for the inclusion to AT? Is it using same algorithm?

Sorta. It gives you achievable or productive workout suggestions. But it does not work towards a particular goal/levels as AT does

As the system gets more complex, nobody will understand why it’s making the decisions it does. It will be connecting disparate correlations across millions of workouts and rides, things a human being cannot fathom. In that sense, you’ll always be second guessing and questioning it. We simply won’t understand what it does most of the time, and that’s why it will require a degree of trust imo.

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Welcome to beta testing an application…there’s a reason it isn’t released in Production - you and the other people in the beta are dealing with these things so they can resolve them before an actual release…

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Similar confusion after my Ramp test last night.

That just seems like a mess to me on a logical sense of such a minor change in FTP. I reviewed the proposed adaptations and accepted them, but they seem like a huge mistake to me. They appear to be far easier than I expect I can complete, especially when reviewing what I accomplished in the first half of this Build phase.

I am planning to manually replace the workouts for this week with more demanding ones. I will consider what AT applied, but likely push further and closer to what I had done in the prior half of this phase, while considering the slight FTP increase too.

So, it seems this Progression Level issue is likely far reaching, and what I consider to be really problematic. To be honest, it is actually de-motivating to see such a decrease in the numbers, even though I know it’s most likely a bug. Counter-intuitive, but I’d expect a more positive experience upon completing a ramp test, especially with a reasonable increase.

It’s part of the beta testing process, but a bit annoying since it worked pretty well when I originally got in. Something new is broken and requiring more manual intervention unfortunately.

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First, thanks for adding the “Outcome” column to the info below. It is a nice to see this in the summary. But it highlights a a prior issue that I believe is already a known bug.

I am 100% certain I filled out a survey response when I completed Carter last night, but it is showing as “Missing Response” today. This has happened several times for me lately (despite always completing the survey in the TR Win app), so there is still a bug there.

Additionally, note that the Ramp Test also shows “Missing Response”. This is a problem and confusing, since there is no survey offered upon completion of the test. This should be listed as some sort of exception “Not Applicable” or other term that indicates there is no survey offered or required.

This problem is also shown on the completed test page:

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Firstly congrats on the FTP increase. Always good news.
I think AT has a built in rule that states that after a change of FTP, whether up or down, adjust levels downwards. That makes sense as either you did well and the new levels will make your workouts harder anyway. If you went down then clearly the workouts need to be easier.

Given what you have been given now I would retain them and do the recommended workouts and see how quickly they jump back up again.

I think this a bit like training plans, you have to trust the process.

Anyway thanks for taking the pain for us not yet on the beta.

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Chad, thanks for the detailed feedback. We’re looking into this now.

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  • Yup. I understand and agree on the general direction of a downward adjustment.

  • My current issue is the severity of the change.

    • My Endurance was cut nearly in half and VO2 Max & Threshold far more than that. Everything else cut back to 1.0 from different points.
    • I just don’t see any rhyme or reason to the amount of change, especially when considering the FTP change was a mere 2% delta.
    • Nonsense reductions in my eyes, when considering the small change in FTP. If this is intended behavior, it better come with some explanation, because I can’t see any reason for the amount changes applied.
  • I am considering this, but admittedly hesitant. Pending races and such are leading me to question a progression that is far slower than I think it should be.

  • Essentially, I don’t want to penalize my actual progression from what may well be bad programming via the beta. I am fine with the process and helping out, but I don’t want to sacrifice my training as a result.

  • Maybe my priorities are off, but I have actual goal events outside of helping TR, and I am seriously concerned by what I see right now, and the limited info I have on whether this is “right or wrong”.

  • Yeah, but before getting into AT, I spent the last two years modifying the default plans to suit my actual abilities. I changed the work and recovery week layout to allow me to complete the prescribed workouts the majority of the time. A necessary change since at 45yo when I started that experiment (and 47 now), the default plans force me to failure without my mods.

  • I got a good taste of how positive AT can be with my first 3-4 weeks using it a while ago. These did make sense and I followed them with good results. But recent changes seem to have put the process steps backwards and the new changes and suggested adaptations no longer make sense. So it’s hard to follow “a leader” that I now think is lost and aimless.

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Not sure if this is normal behaviour or a bug. My VO2 level was 1.1 as I had been doing SSB and my efforts over threshold had been on Zwift or outside.

Despite this my first VO2 workout set in my plan was an 8.1 and the system even said “Not recommended”!

So I failed the workout today but completed a good proportion of it at full power or between 5-10% lower. Despite this the system has given me no increase in level, I assume because I failed. So I am still at a 1.1 level despite completing half of a 8.1 level workout!

I assumed the system would be a bit more nuanced and give my attempt a score to increase my levels

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Welcome to beta testing an application…there’s a reason it isn’t released in Production - you and the other people in the beta are dealing with these things so they can resolve them before an actual release…

Didn’t say I had a problem with it, just that until it starts making sense then I wont be trusting it.

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What survey questions did you get, and which answer did you choose?

I got the failure questionnaire and answered “Intensity”

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Practically speaking I’d argue a ramp test bump from 261 to 266 is basically within the noise floor of power meter accuracy and day-to-day body fluctuations.

And even if you did have a minor bump, it was such a minor bump that basically reseting most of the progressions is clearly a bug.

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