🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

Got it. That would be nice. I just spent my lunch our reviewing the original Sustained Power Build plan and my current AT version. I added a new workout for each one set this week as a more appropriate start to this 2nd half of Build. I will see how I did in guessing after my next hard workout Thursday evening.

Depending on how I hit that, I expect some big changes from AT. If not, I will consider what change I may need for my next hard one on Sat and continue until I see positive changes from AT.

Wow, some funky stuff going on with the AT beta. Makes me feel a little better about not getting the invite yet. But it seems like AT works well enough right now if you don’t change your FTP (test or manual) and you’re just doing indoor rides…obviously two pretty big ifs.

  • Good thing we never want that number to change. Certainly not something TR wants to happen for any of us :wink:
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Just a note on this, last week I did an 8.1 Sweet Spot session and it was literally everything I had to get through it. There were points where I really, really wanted to quit, but just about managed to distract myself enough to get through it.

My last FTP test was probably two months ago, and it’s very likely that I’m a meaningful chunk higher now than I was then. Certainly I’m doing sessions that I definitely couldn’t have done two months ago.

…and with that in mind, if my FTP increased even 5%, I wouldn’t get through the adjusted session. So yes, the sessions are scaled to your FTP, but it’s worth remembering that they’re scaled to what your FTP was. That’s the idea behind not immediately having you at the same levels after an upwards FTP change.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, arguably it should have you doing basically the same or slightly higher output you were doing just before the FTP change, and using whatever level / sessions enable you to do that. Changing your FTP hasn’t magically made you a stronger rider, it’s just given you a more up to date measurement.

Edit - It’s hard to explain without example workouts… but if you’d been using Adaptive Training for a few weeks and it had calculated that you could do 4 x 20 min intervals at 250w for tomorrow’s workout (stretch), you wouldn’t necessarily want that session being 4 x 20 min intervals at 265w (possibly breakthrough) just because you’d changed your FTP today.

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Exactly that is my understanding, the levels adjust just enough that your work before and after FTP Test feel almost the same so a level 5.6 @ 250FTP is more demanding than a 5.6 @ 240FTP for the same person that just increase his FTP from 240 to 250.

Fail criteria question and ‘easy’ endurace rides.

How would AT handle an endurance ride that I purposely lower by 5%? I often do this on my east days to make the day easier, but still in the endurace zone. I would tag these as easy of course.

Vaguely related, I just got an unexpected (small) bump to my Endurance level from one of my recovery week sessions. I guess I don’t do a lot of Endurance sessions!

I now have access to fill out surveys for my outdoor workouts over last weekend. Filling them out results in what appears to be classification for my progression levels, as well. It’s possible yesterday’s update addressed both the outdoor workout surveys bug and the Wahoo outdoor workout bug.

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You can. You could just not use AT or dont do a FTP assessment.

I was going to write almost exactly the same. Nothing has changed in your capability pre and post assessment. The reference, FTP, for levels has, because of this it makes sense for your the levels to decrease if this number has increased, you cant magically jump sessions by x% hours later just because of a FTP bump you are still the same person.

I agree that the magnitude of the change is questionable. I guess that the system will learn this over time, seems a bit extreme at the moment from what people have reported. This is probably the main point, not just the decrease itself.

Would be interesting to know how much higher, lower or the same the decreases means for typical EN, SST, Threshold sessions prior and post change in terms of power and duration.

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I tried working it out, but my brain started to melt a bit.

Are you being prompted to complete a survey when you look at the ride? For me I’m seeing ‘Missing response’ from outdoor rides, now for both TR workouts and non TR group rides…

…but if I click on Update Survey Response I can add the effort level and it appears to save.

FWIW I have not been prompted with the survey for outside rides, I’ve just been manually filling them out afterwards. (I don’t have power outside so it’s a bit pointless but WHATEVER :laughing: )

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I am not getting a prompt to fill it out (definitely a shortcoming at this time). I have the same experience that you describe.

Workouts last week show progression level changes on the career page for them too, but this week they do not. I think that’s because this week has been a recovery week, and there’s no real need to change progression until the ramp test on Tuesday.

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If you are using a heart rate meter outside and on the beta, check your TR Account on the web. See of you have a “TSS Estimation” section. I do and set mine up. Applied it to a MTB rude with HR only and the TSS guess seemed decent.

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While yes - most of the current issues certainly / hopefully are because of the beta phase I fully expect that even when beta officially ends there remains a long phase to sort out how helpful AT will be. And what it really will comprise.

I fully expect it won’t be much more than helping a few / some / many folks which struggle with the completion of workouts in feeding them somewhat more appropriate sessions from the library. Which will be already a good thing, I guess.

In no way will it be a revolution in providing a feed back adaptive training in the means of altering the training regimen per se so as to cater for the needs of an athlete to develop their systems in regard of their chosen target (long endurance, race deciding punchiness etc.). If so - I will be pleasantly surprised. Regarding the state of the science (physiology at most) I don’t think we will arrive there anyway soon.

Hey, but all will be moot if even the beta shows that their approach doesn’t converge at adaptions that make sense. Part of what I read here could also hint at that possibility. I.e. a total ship wreck before ever leaving beta. I certainly don’t hope that for the Team, but - we will see in time how things pan out.

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I think you are right regarding new progress on the Wahoo outdoor workout processing - I don’t have beta access, but in TrainNow, I’m now seeing very appropriate suggestions based on what I’ve been doing towards end of the general build plan - they all look consistent with recent completions and/or slightly tougher, as intended. And the only TR workouts I’ve been doing for weeks are outside on Wahoo!

It’s a huge change and improvement from the off-the-couch suggestions that had been there!

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do you also use intervals.icu? how do the estimated TSSs compare?

I do use Intervals too.

TR - 105 TSS
INT - 88 Training Load (TSS)

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Last couple rides:

  • 1:14 yesterday: TR 80, Intervals 82
  • 3:06 today: TR 155, Intervals 152

Close enough for government work!

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