🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

I agree that this is what was stated on the podcast, but after working through issues with customer service with AT issues, they convinced me to use hard but manageable as Moderate (2), Hard (3) for workouts where I couldn’t really have done more, Very Hard (4) where there is difficulty/slight failure getting through.

This essentially shifted ratings down for me, but it helped adaptations kick-in.

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Good advice from Support. I found quickly that using Hard triggered undesired consequences in adaptations, especially if i had chosen a harder alternate on the day, so i reserve it’s use for when i think i prefer a slower ramp rate (like Threshold at the moment).

With respect to the impact of Hard responses after choosing harder alternatives, Support explained in words to the effect that if i choose a harder alternative and then mark the response as Hard, it is giving a signal to AT that the move up was maybe a bit too much.

My default is Moderate, which is like my Green light to carry on as planned. As i said, Hard is used when i want to signal i don’t want the ramp rate increased (or maybe even decreased). This seems to have the desired effect for me and the adaptations coming through make sense as a whole.

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After a ramp test my progression levels reset to 1, is that intended behaviour or a bug?

@trijdc @PotsieA Would you folks be willing to quote the responses from Support in here? I’m super interested to know what they said!

Your progression levels will drop when your FTP increases. If your levels were around 2-3 before the increase, they may drop to around 1. What were your levels before?

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Sure

From the looks of it, since Sleeping Beauty was an easier Workout , and you’ve passed a Foerster marking it as “Hard”, the ideal progression would have wanted you to stick to an easier VO2 Max Workout. Bringing this down to “Moderate” will slightly bump up your next VO2 Max efforts for a progression to make sense! However, If you were still expecting harder VO2 Workouts, then doing as you have done (using Alternates to get a hard VO2 Workout) is substantial enough for AT to take into consideration, so long as the progression makes sense :slight_smile:

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The chat referred to a couple of issues but here is the part pertaining to this question:

(04:22:25 PM) Bryce L: In the future, I think recalibrating your Survey Responses considering Moderate the “middle” option will help things progress better in the future.
(04:22:47 PM) trijdc: And I have been consistent with rating. Hard is “as expected - got through each interval with a little to spare” Very Hard “got through but it was really tough” moderate -easier than I thought given workout type
(04:22:59 PM) Bryce L: See how your next Tuesday workout goes, answer honestly, and I think that the Thursday Workout will adapt-up at that time.
(04:23:08 PM) trijdc: Ok that helps
(04:24:09 PM) Bryce L: I understand, and I think better messaging can be around that.
Easy - Easier than expected
Moderate - As expected
Hard - A bit of a challenge to finish successfully
Very Hard - Had to take some extra recovery, really struggled but made it though
(04:24:55 PM) trijdc: Ok that helps - basically, I need to shift down one :slight_smile:

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I’m done with the first half of short power build HV and I think aside from the first round of adaptations when the plan started I haven’t had any changes in the past 3 weeks, and only have a few going forward. I really like the 4 and 5 level stuff I’m getting for vo2 so far and it definitely gives me confidence going into workouts that they’re going to be quality and achievable

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Any recommendations on strategy / best practice for choosing alternate workouts when you feel TR is underestimating your PL after a ramp test?

Case in point: I’m in the beta since last Tuesday (June 29). Last (finished) TR ride was Virginia on May 19 and in June it was just unstructured (long, upto 600km) outdoor rides. Ramp test was -2W compared to the last one on March 24. Estimated PL for endurance upto VO2Max were in the low 2’s

Wednesday was an “easy” endurance ride, PL 1.1; instead replaced with a stretch → +1.2 PL (easy)
Thursday was an “medium” sweet spot, stretched to +1.9 (easy)
Saturday “medium” threshold, stretched to +2.2 (moderate)
Sunday “easy” sweet spot, stretched to +1.3 (moderate)

Should I have chosen for break through workouts instead? Also, what about the “easy” days in the schedule, take it easy regardless or stretch when you feel like it? Esp. the Wednesdays: a one hour PL 1.1 endurance ride is scheduled every week but that is just recovery for a randonneur like me :laughing: (unfortunately I don’t have the time on Wednesday to do longer rides).

Scheduled tomorrow is Monitor +2, a 1:15 hour PL 5.1 sweet spot ride; I’m inclined to up this to something like Tallac +2, 1:30 at PL 6.5. Reasonable?

Just starting to checkout AT. Am I right in the following assumptions?:

  • any type of outdoor workout using wahoo won’t count
  • anytime I move a workout due to scheduling conflict, it will no longer count for AT
  • anytime I have to workout without power eg business travel hotel gym workout on spin bike also won’t count even if I wear a heart rate monitor
  • there is no way to manually set my levels for my own progression monitoring eg endurance which I currently do mostly outside in the summer but indoors in the winter - a manual override could be a neat idea!

Currently, this is correct. You can, however, still fill out the surveys for them for when it is up and running. They just aren’t getting credited by AT due to a bug at the moment.

Moving it makes it ineligible to be adapted. Completing a workout after it is moved will still contribute to progression levels and as such may trigger adaptations of future workouts. As such, if you move a workout right now, the best practice is to wait until the day you had it scheduled before moving it to ensure it got all the adaptations it would have gotten.

This I am not sure about. You can do Heart Rate TSS on it, but I don’t believe it will change progression levels.

Not at the moment. Some users above have created their own spreadsheets and things to keep track though.

Best option is to swap out the workout for something in time/length/distance to what your effort will be on the ride using the Alternates feature. Alternatively, just go on a long ride without a TR workout and when AT uses “unstructured rides”, it would presumably be picked up.

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Got it! Thanks!

Seems like a way to manually set progression levels in the app could be a nice feature to have to account for outside endurance rides or anything else not recognized by the current system

3800+ posts in here so not sure if this has been covered;

Can @IvyAudrain or @Nate_Pearson comment on whether AT is functionally looking within an energy system (say VO2) whether within the progression levels itself how a rider rates in on/off vs. sustained vs. hard start?

Or is the way the progression levels themselves are designed an on/off workout at 4.8 is similiar in VO2 response to a 4.8 continuous?

So I moved tomorrows workout to today and AT updated my workout plan. As I am on holidays and have more time to ride and am not walking 20km a day for work I want to add more rides. What is the best way to add more rides and have AT adapt tp them?

Thanks.

Any TR workout you add to your plan will count toward progression levels and adapt future workouts. The ones you add won’t be adapted by previous ones though. In your case, I’d probably just use TrainNow each day to add something to my calendar based on how I was feeling.

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These types are accounted for individually within VO2 Max workouts and within Adaptive Training when addressing and updating your Progression Levels. :sunglasses:

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Did an FTP test, minor increase (~6%). All levels reset to between 1.0 and 1.2… excessive, not least because in one case I’d already seen a decay from a peak of 10.0 (Sweet Spot) and 9.1 (Threshold) just due to a taper / recovery week.

Needless to say I’m going to be ignoring the suggested levels for the first week of the new plan.

I’ve been in the beta for a couple of weeks, but it happened to coincide with a taper week and recovery week, so nothing has really happened until today. Just before my ramp test today, my VO2 got upped from 5.1 to 5.4, no biggie, I know that’s a strength and I’m cool with that. I then did the ramp test, and ended up 1 watt higher. Basically a rounding error, yet it’s dropped everything quite a bit, including VO2 to 4.1. This seems excessive for an FTP change of less than half a percent?

I’ll leave it as I’m sure it’ll quickly go back up, but would have thought for an FTP change that small, nothing would change.

Long ago I had a similar experience and set of comments. Seems there still is a fairly extreme drop in PL’s from any FTP change.

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Ah yes. Thank you, and I agree with all your points in your previous post. I was already a little bummed that I only got a single watt (let’s call it a rounding error) and to then also see all those progression levels hit the floor was an extra kick in the teeth.

I’ll slap in alternatives that I think are closer to what I think they should be and go from there. Thanks!

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Regardless, double-checking with the team about this. :v:

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