Initial thoughts on diet adjustment

@jiffylush All of those deets sound like fantastic plans! Ya, I really like the long & hard ones too. Recently did the 45 min practice TT @ FTP, and last Friday, the one below, Smith -2, last int is 102% for 10 mins. I was def in VO2 territory, particularly bc I just recently bumped my FTP 208 → 210. As long as I can do these, I see no reason to jack myself up on sugar. I also do IF & fasted rides, I think it’s super beneficial to force the body to crack open the reserve tank.

Agreed on alcohol. We know enough now; it’s pure poison. Sure is delicious, though!

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@Abe_Froman I do know what you mean, but it takes two to debate. If I don’t engage, there can’t be a debate! :slight_smile: My point just being that ya, I get your point, that’s definitely the usual outcome… but it doesn’t have to be.

[Which seems to work just fine for many soapboxers, to have a one-man debate! (Not you, or anyone else I’ve chatted w in here. But you see it aaall the time.)]

I try to just share info. If someone hard disagrees, demands “sources”, etc., I try to just pass on it. Sometimes I might respond to a question, if it seems like the person is genuinely asking for info. Sometimes I fail and bite at the bait, but I really try not to. Not worth your time.

Most of the time people pretending to “debate”, ask for sources, etc., really have absolutely no intention of even absorbing a single new data point, let alone actually changing their thinking about something. They just enjoy mental jousting for sport, and enjoy the feeling of having “won”.

I genuinely and deeply pity the friends and life partners of these people. [Again, nobody in here.] I can’t imagine the embarrassing pain of having to listen to their rehashed ‘tales of triumphant victory’ over the internet knaves! :laughing:

I used to debate, both in person with friends, and online, when I was younger. I never made a lot of money! I think, actually…checking…yes, actually not one copper penny! :laughing:

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@robcow the artificial sweeteners thing is [apparently! :slight_smile: ] because your body can’t tell they’re fake. The sweetness triggers the same insulin response as if you were actually eating sugar; massive wave of insulin, cells pull sugar out of the blood stream as fast as possible to get it “back in control”… even though in this case, there is none. [Wouldn’t that cause a blood sugar crash?]

It’s because the sweetness receptors in the mouth play a [massive] role in starting the early insulin response, not just the chemical sugar getting into the blood. If your body waited that long, you’d likely already be unconscious.

Makes a lot of sense, really, IMO.

What an idiot…vegans can’t eat pudding.

:crazy_face: :crazy_face: :crazy_face:

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@voldemort actually, crazy & funny story: Early English arctic explorers had no clue how the Inuit survived without any veggies or fruits. They thought for sure they would get scurvy and die. I think for a while they thought they didn’t need it or something. Unsure.

The Inuit actually saved the lives of some English explorers who either didn’t bring Vit C, before they knew about it, or ran out, by providing them with Muktuk; the thick hide and underlying fat of seals, Narwhal, and other animals. The Inuit chew it and swallow it. [It’s like a car tire.] It was of course a long time after this that they discovered there are massive amounts of Vit C in the muktuk. They had no clue what was going on, only that sharing “natural food” with the Inuit prevented scurvy. They shared seal meat, fish, etc, not only muktuk. The Inuit actually shared some of the canned provisions the English had brought, and pretty much thought they were trying to slowly kill themselves!! :laughing:

Sharks probably eat a ton of Vit C. Weird, eh? Many animals, lots of fish included, can make their own Vit C. Maybe sharks can, no clue. We’re some of the few losers who can’t!!! :laughing:

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@Abe_Froman and anyone else who tries to minimize or eliminate red meat: Genuine, friendly Q:

Is the negative of red meat strictly the saturated fat content? Or is it other things as well?

… I mean, ignoring the antibiotics, hormones, etc, which are all obvi terrible… but my understanding is they are equally in all meats, and not necessarily less harmful than the pesticides and processing chemicals on and in many veggies and veggie derived products.

Or nah, we’re thinking the fun chemicals in meats are worse than the fun chemicals on fruit & veg? [Again, legit ask! :slight_smile: ]

Edit: Worth note: I eat meat, but for environmental reasons, make sure I’m also getting a ton of fat from other sources, not just all meat. Less impact.

I wonder how much red meat a person would need to eat to develop hemochromatosis if they also chewed muktuk?

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Here’s things I found just now with one from the Cleveland Clinic about an extreme diet, but it shows the dangers of ‘too much’ meat, and adds to the data that eating meat can be bad.

Carbs in their basic form provide fuel for your body. And there are a lot of good-for-you carbohydrates that are loaded with fiber, vitamins and minerals. The best carbs are the ones that most closely resemble how they occur in nature — not processed or refined. Some to consider are:

Fruits, such as apples, pineapple, strawberries.
Vegetables, such as carrots, sweet potatoes and beets. 
Whole grains, such as quinoa and whole wheat bread.

“The carnivore diet is super low in fiber, which will cause a lot of constipation,” says Patton. And the risks become much more serious than a failure to poop.

“If you have a pre-existing chronic condition, like [high blood pressure], high cholesterol, any history of stroke or other cardiovascular diseases, you should definitely not try this diet,” Patton says pointedly. “Even if you have digestive issues, this diet can make things worse with all that protein and fat, which takes a lot longer to digest.”

The carnivore diet is high in saturated fats which can cause elevated LDL or bad cholesterol and put you at risk for heart disease. What’s more, many different kinds of processed meats like bacon and some lunch meats are loaded with sodium and have been linked to certain types of cancer. And a diet high in sodium can cause kidney problems and high blood pressure.

And: Why Eating Meat Is Unhealthy - The Atlantic

Risk in Red Meat? | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aam5324

With this quote:

Although meat is a concentrated source of nutrients for low-income families, it also enhances the risks of chronic ill health, such as from colorectal cancer and cardiovascular disease.

And points to increased colorectal cancer in meat eaters, especially processed meat consumers.

Humans have largely given up control of their food, and what they eat. From one product to another, we don’t know exactly what is in what we eat. ‘Food’ is found contaminated by things not on the ingredient list, and do to cost cutting lingering for many years, the very corporations producing the ingredients used are being trusted for quality control, which has led to amazing issues when tainted products are found and destroyed. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of meat has been destroyed due to sloppy processing and storage. It’s not just meat, it’s all through the industry. I remember the Clif Bar disaster, when Clif was found using peanuts from a processor that were not rated for human consumption, but they were used (apparently) because they were cheap. It happens every day I’m sure, and nothing much is done about it because it’s expensive to have inspectors, and it’s expensive to do the testing, and the corporations have power through lobbying and lawyers to attempt to avoid charges, and any recalls. There is food that I refuse to eat because it is known to be easily contaminated. I seek the nutrients I am missing from other sources.

And, no I am no vegan. I’m not a very good vegetarian either. I can’t give up some of the required food to make that level. I do my best.

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Artificial sweeteners are chemical compounds, and many of them are not fully tested. What we are possibly seeing is the effects of artificial sweeteners on the next generation of users. Medical research has plenty of examples of chemical compounds skipping generations and causing illness. There are also lots of examples of people that for one reason, or a lot of reasons, are sensitive to certain chemicals or compounds.

Real sugar is a problem, but fake sweeteners can be worse for some people. We ‘should’ try to avoid as much of either as we can, and rely on more natural sweeteners than the fake kind. Yeah, they are hard to avoid too. Oh well… It’s a mad mad mad world…

Interesting I suppose…

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Yea. Lost in all of this nonsense about poison fruit is a real discussion about the general deterioration of the human food supply, from beginning to end.

Cattle and poultry practices are frightening. Use of pesticides and herbicides are suspect. The alteration of major crops through genetic modification is an amazing advancement, but the resulting homogenization of species has a real potential for disaster carried with it.

Then we get into the increasing ratio of crap processed food. It’s one of those topics that can really make one depressed if you spend too much time on it.

Sometimes I wish I were born in a different generation (or country), but then I remember how shitty downtube friction shifters are.

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I don’t have time to argue but this just absolute bollocks. I haven’t eaten any fiber in years and my stool has never been more regular and easier. Quite easy to verify for yourself too that you don’t need fiber to poop, try the carnivore diet a few weeks for yourself and see what happens. Incidentally I have 0 flatulence too since I am on the carnivore diet (I am not kidding about this either)

Anecdote vs. data……thee is a difference.

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People also have gone 9 months not realizing they’re pregnant. You might to reconsider your perception is off on this, rather than the entire world got it wrong, and you got it right.

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Did it never occur to you that your FTP is depressed because of your diet impacting your ability to perform on the test, and that is the only reason you think you can do “hard” efforts fine?

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Just try it yourself.

Well funny you should say that….I went to the Intelligentsia Cup race last night in the next town over to watch the P, 1, 2 race…food options were limited and I had pulled pork and a later a double burger.

This morning I was bloated and struggling to squeeze out rock hard pebbles before my ride.

So yeah, eating primarily meat left me constipated. So the science is accurate.

See how that works?

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Pass. Hard pass.

I gave up red meat, and eggs, and survived. I’ve cut back on a lot of the other meats I eat as well. Not eating red meat makes me feel better. Giving up milk does too. You can live a full rich life by limiting or eliminating meat consumption.

Staying away from ‘overly processed foods’ is a lot harder to pull off. Wow, and it’s probably getting harder. Avoiding overly sweetened foods and beverages is harder to avoid too! I was looking for just a simple lemonade last night, and it’s really hard to avoid ‘lemonade’ with 15 grams or more of sugar per serving. Yikes… (I remember ‘Paul Newman’s’ lemonade that was slightly sweetened (as I remember it), and it was delish… (From too many years ago. Was looking to see if it’s still available)

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Which proofs it wasn’t the meat since it takes around 2 days for food to pass through the entire GI tract :rofl: