Fasting, low carb, but fully carb up during and after rides/workouts

Nutrition
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Hi everyone, I’d love to have some feedback or discussion around a process that I have recently found myself using and I have to say to somewhat of A success over the past two weeks. The “success“ is that I don’t feel hungry or sore or not fueled during my rides and I feel like I’m getting the most out of my performance. However, it’s only been two weeks, and who knows maybe I just haven’t felt the repercussions that are coming. So, with that here’s my question.

Preface: On Mondays, I fast, and pretty much every day I wake up And have three eggs with a tiny bit of cheese, a couple of dates and a cup of coffee. And then I don’t eat again until dinner time which is six or 7 o’clock. That meal is primarily meat based very low carb with some vegetables. It may also be avocado with nuts and feta cheese and sea salt sprinkled with some cranberries. If I’m not really hungry I try to do a light meal. The reason for the fasting is that I’m trying to lose weight. 10 to 15 more pounds to be exact, with no exact timeline. And, I’ve already taken off 10 Over the past 2 months. About two weeks ago I joined TrainerRoad and began to work out in Earnest to “increase my FTP“ and I have had some really good rides hard training TSS between 360 and 430 per week. Now, during the rides, I use my homemade drink mix, which is 90 g of cane sugar, lemon juice, two teabags, some salt Per hour. I start drinking this mixture about 10 minutes before I start working out and I use it during the workout…

This seems to work, but I’m wondering first what do people think about this process, if there’s some nutritional gotcha that’s sneaking up on me, because I kind of feel like I found the holy Grail for me, but I just don’t want to be overconfident.

Thanks for reading such a long message. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts.

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I have been following a somewhat similar strategy for this year.

  • Eat carbs before and during exercise to properly fuel them and so I won’t overeat afterwards.
  • Eat less carbs and more protein after workouts and on rest days.
  • Only drink calories and only eat sweets when exercising.

I am on a master plan but usually swap one endurance workout for a third hard interval.
Lost 5KG so far this year and gained 2.2% FTP last Ai Test (next test is next week). Also gained some muscle from weight training.

The main things I would look out for is fueling enough for proper recovery and doing some weights training to prevent muscle loss.

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I think for the general public, what you are doing is probably the healthiest way to do it.

I wouldn’t look to race the Tour De France on your diet, but I still don’t think it’s far off. They just eat more carbs when they eat carbs and on the bike.

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Congratulations on your weight loss so far! Depending on how much weight you have to lose (is 10lbs 5% of your body weight or 2%?), I would be careful with losing too much too fast if you continue to drop so quickly over time. It’s awesome mentally to see the scale move so quickly, but it’s usually not sustainable and often leads to putting a lot of the weight back on once you “go back to normal eating”, which is pretty inevitable.

I’d also be careful with expecting to both lose weight AND increase FTP simultaneously. This is really hard to do and can wipe you out quickly. Focus on watts/kg ratio instead while you’re losing weight. Once you’ve reached your target weight, you can focus on bringing up both your FTP and your wt/kg.

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Thanks Pbase, I’m trying to develop a sustainable eating pattern or “livet” (vs diet as it’s something to live with not die by lol) and I’m reminding myself to eat for fuel not for pleasure “most of the time” … and not worry about when I eat for pleasure with friends or family. A good balance I’m hoping. Fasting Mondays, Portion and quality (organic) control, the carb reduction and TrainerRoad workouts seem to be a good combo and it’s pulling the weight off so I’m pretty happy. Just want to make sure I’m not missing something that will clothesline me. :slight_smile:

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FWIW, I stopped intermittant fasting after doing it for years because it was too hard to eat my target amount of protein each day.

If you’re training and recovering well with your carb quantity and timing, then you’re all set.

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I am probably going to sound like a jerk and I really don’t mean to. I admire your commitment and dedication. But. As someone already mentioned, losing 10 pounds in a month is a lot, especially if you’re only looking to lose 15 (as opposed to 150). I fear it is unsustainable. And, fasting for an entire day is just not recommended by any nutritionist that I’ve heard who deals w athletes. I’m not going to go on about what I do, we all are different. But I would recommend digging into the TR nutrition podcasts, there are many. Since it’s only been two weeks, it might seem sustainable. But you’re working hard…

Also, I wonder how long your longest rides are? Felling them directly may work if they are less than 2/3 hours, but the longer they get the more your body will want to dig into some glycogen stores, which are probably low (and part of the weight loss)

well, my 2 cents. Whatever you do, I hope you have fun getting faster!

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Not Jerkey sounding at all, good advice. My long rides are 60-100mile and maybe I mislead …I’m not trying to lose 10lbs in 1 month. I’m finishing up a training plan in 1 month to see if I’ve gotten stronger with TrainerRoad. My apologies…I’ve updated the original post to be more clear.

My food intake has shifted towards lower carbs daily and I’m posting this to make sure the “just in time”carb loading is just that …”in time” and hoping to get validation that my timing and process are, well, advisable.
I see what you mean about the body digging into deeper fuel stores and will look deeper into pre-long ride carb-load requirements…good call! Thank you.

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Whew! Okay, 10lb in 2 months is better. Note: I am not a nutritionist, but I have been eating food my whole life! Haha. Seriously, I have been researching this extensively as an amateur. I am training for my third Leadville, and I have learned a lot over the last few years. Thanks to the TR podcasts for much of that!

That said, I am in the midst of losing the last 10/15 myself. It comes and goes depending on seasons of life, issues, ride time, etc. Lest I make this about me, the only way I personally have success is tracking macros and calories. I verify my protein and carb intake, and the fat falls where it falls. My (non-professional!) concern is the low amount of protein, and the apparent calorie deficit you are in. Also, your glycogen stores are almost certainly very minimal.

If I don’t focus on carbs and then carb up before a big event, I can easily gain 2-4 pounds…this is because of the either 3:1 or 4:1 ratio of grams of water for every carb. So, I’ve decided to eat high-carb, high protein daily, and I top off the tank a little before a big race or training session, eat a very high-carb breakfast on race day and then fuel the ride as well.

The last point that concerns me is…perhaps Monday is your rest day? This is a hard lesson to learn, but rest needs to be fueled, too. Protein, carbs, etc., as your body rebuilds. It’s very easy to think we don’t need to eat because we aren’t doing much on Monday, but I eat my typical daily calories (minus ride food of course) and it keeps me from wanting to murder my partner and dogs.

I recognize everything I say is the polar opposite of what you’re doing! So, if it’s working for you, then I’d be hard-pressed to listen to me if I were you! But it would be interesting to see how your first long ride goes on this diet…and then go from there. Happy riding!

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3rd Leadville…nice! I’d love to do some of the longer rides once I retire (5 years or so) and now I’m focusing on the shape I need to not get dropped in road and crit races later this year. And I just don’t want to buy another bike … and shoes, and gear, and and and … well maybe I’ll consider it cause that sounds like fun.

Insofar as your approach or my approach, I think you should do you for sure!! I want to cut carbs to only when needed to manage insulin’s fat storage signaling and alap allow my body to up its time in autophagy. I’ve learned there’s essential proteins but no essential carbs but carbs are a great fuel (and some say essential for fueling a training and racing as opposed to racing in ketosis… ouch) so I’m trying to find the way through the maze. I’m feeling pretty good about the approach, and I love all the feedback and thoughts folks have shared. I am taking them seriously and considering all of it.

Fueling update: last night 8pm I ate 2 cups pasta with avacado, 5 dates, goat cheese, chicken and ground beef and a big side of baked squash. This Morning was 3 eggs and bacon with dates and 1 cup of that pasta … fueled the 3.5 hr ride ride with my 2 bottles homemade 90gr p/hr cane sugar recipe and a chocolate filled crepe snack (crazy good). Last hour.5 was water and that crepe.

Results: I just returned from a 3.5hr training rode and feel really strong. Upped my max sprint 150watts over last week on this same course and upped my cadence from 75-80 to 88-95 with rollers and hills at 102. Motivation was high, and I smiles most of the ride. I would have finished much faster than last weeks ride but helped a lady who got a flat and didn’t have tools or a tube, then rode with a guy at a zone 1 pace who also stopped to help.

That said, I’m still interested if anyone can poke holes in this approach and issue a “cliff warning” because I’m making this approach up from a cobbling of various “goals” ie

  1. Insulin management (not diabetic just want to not have insulin signaling fat storage constantly)
  2. Proper fueling for effort extended
  3. Maximize autophagy
  4. Get faster, stronger, more resilient to extended effort so I can race with confidence
  5. Learn about nutrition as it applies to me and my goals
  6. Engage the community and learn from you
  7. Share approach and results - maybe someone will benefit other than me.
  8. Doom scroll less
  9. Ride bike more = smile more
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I can’t say I have specific advice/changes but it seems decently manageable so far. Though I’d probably say that around/past that 400TSS/wk line is around where some dodgy nutrition strategies can start to really hinder you.

Also, (you seem to have this going decently already) as your calorie deficit gets bigger then nutrient timing becomes more important. So before a ‘normal workout’ do your best to not be fasted going in and to have a recovery meal/snack after. And before a big ride/race have a bigger and carb-ier dinner and breakfast before.

Have intensity be the first thing to go if you’re feeling fatigued. Be honest with yourself and be ready to drop intensity if it feels terrible during a ride and turn it into endurance, recovery, or even a day off.

Lastly, really temper your expectations when it comes to both weight loss and fitness gains. Unless you’re both really big and a newb on the bike (respectfully) it will be difficult to have both and it can take serious work just to maintain one while progressing on the other. So maybe w/kg is a decent placeholder for FTP gains while weight loss is the focus (as @Pbase also said). It can still happen and you can get stronger and lighter at the same time but I wouldn’t expect it and be happy if it does happen or else you can really set yourself up for disappointment.

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Solid advice mwglow15, thank you. Nutrients and managing calorie/carb deficits are a concern for sure. I’m using Cronometer app to track these. I wish it were integrated into TR but that’s another thread I imagine.

Tr gave me a light TSS week of 192 then next week back to 431 so I’m seeing some periodization (maybe the wrong word) or maybe “super-compensation” time factored into my plan. Seems like 3 weeks of 400+ then a lighter week. I’ll plan to up the carbs this week - following suggestions from this thread.

I have to say, this is a great community… thanks everyone for taking my question seriously and sharing your thoughts. Please keep them coming as the insights are very welcomed and are helping me develop a sustainable livet (as opposed to diet)… never liked the word DIEt seems bound to end badly…lol

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Always a good idea, especially with long periods of fasting with higher intensity training as you could easily be in twice the acceptable deficit if you’re not careful.

Yeah that’s pretty standard for TR. 3 ‘working’ weeks followed by 1 ‘recovery’ week. I sometimes think for most people the recovery to work ratio can be a bit higher than necessary but in your case of training while dieting then I think it’s the better way to lean. Better to be a bit over-recovered vs over-worked.

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Sounds like you’re doing 4-5 hours of training if they are generally “hard”, to get to +/- 400 TSS. I would for sure think calorie deficits & fasting are probably more sustainable when you’re training very low volume like this, as recovery requirements are pretty low. I would also guess since you are fairly new, your kj requirements are also low, so it’s going to dig less of a hole nutrition wise than a higher level athlete with big power. I don’t like fasting or low carb as they can lead to muscle loss over time, and definitely not supportive of long term performance, but it can certainly work “ok” in this scenario, at least for a bit.

If you start to notice having legs that feel tired and heavy, or RPE feels high even at lower power, you could be running into glycogen issues, so just keep an eye on things.

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