Yep - exactly.
It’s an extreme example because of the setup, although it does seem to reinforce the point that the same power at a different cadence might illicit a different physiological response.
Personally, I’ve not done anything other than training in self selected cadences that correspond to likely race cadences. But, I would consider doing so if there was evidence that extremely low or high cadences had less obvious benefits that were going to make me faster.
So I’ve had a power meter for last 4-5 years. And I’ve always “trained” to power, which I think is best way. I’ve always done this at the cadence that felt best (90-100), and never put much thought into cadence.
Over last couple of years, I’ve really enjoyed improving my long duration power. 1-3hr power and putting out good power for a century has been my focus.
The reason for asking my previous question is that I’m on my second year of base training with Z2 rides of longer hours (relative to me). And as I’m learning more every day, I see this is developing my slow twitch fibers aerobically. And I can really notice it too. Towards the end of multi hour efforts, my cadence always drops into the 80’s. I’m relating this to me tiring out my slow twitch fibers and having to rely more on my fast twitch. If cadence, torque, and power can be utilized in some training cases to work the fast twitch fibers, but train them to use the aerobic energy sources better, then I think this would help me push out my durations better. So when slow twitch do tire out, the fast twitch can work more efficiently, aerobically, and longer instead of only having an anaerobic nature. And I do realize that even when muscles are working anaerobically, they are still working aerobically.
Just did SSB1 and 2. For reference I’m 26, 61kg and UK cat 2. Started trainerroad end of Oct mostly doing outdoor versions of workouts, which often means doing some additional z2 on the way to and from safer roads.
Saw a jump from 240-248 after SSB1
Tested at 247 today after SSB2, but don’t think it tells the complete story as I’ve hit power PBs in the last 2 weeks e.g. during Wright peak -1 for durations greater than 1hour.
Biggest thing with these plans seems to be fueling. I feel like I was having to fuel workouts less and less as I progressed through the base phase. At first, I was taking energy drinks for the sweet spot workouts as well as bars but was fine with just bars toward the end of SSB2.
On to build now, which I’m hoping will get me above 250w FTP for the first time.
Here’s my experience:
I’ve done SSB 1 & 2, HV, and they were very challenging but I completed them with total compliance.
Just finished 1st “block” (4 weeks) of HV General Build and am actually finding it easier to deal with. It’s really hard, of course, but mentally I just find the shorter intervals and more intense stuff a bit more fun, and easier to approach, than long relentless blocks of sweetspot.
With Build, you have a hard day followed by an easier day, and this breaks it up nicely. With SSB - you are just hammering SS intervals every day except one.
All this said, i’ve only done first phase of HV general build so plenty of scope to suddenly crash and burn 
This ^
PS not denigrating SSB in the slightest, if it reads like that: I’ve never done anything like it before, and I feel great from it.
What is the best way to fill a LV amount of training time if you know you can handle HV plans?
Last season, my first of serious training and my first with TrainerRoad, I jumped right into the High Volume plans. Other than adding a lifting day on Monday, and substituting the Friday aerobic ride for another lifting day, I had a very high level of compliance. Except for the first workout in General Buld (V02 max intervals hit me like a freight train) I can’t recall having to skip or alter a workout because of too much fatigue. I went from 236w / 3.5 w/kg to 300w / 4.5 w/kg. After starting more base in the fall I made it to 315w / 4.8 w/kg. I am currently at 275w / 4.1 w/kg after having to take around 6 weeks off due to life stuff.
This year, I can only guarantee myself a Low Volume amount of training time. Just about to finish SSBLV1 and it maybe felt too easy? I’ve started subbing in higher TSS workouts the fit within the original goals, but I’m wondering if that is enough.
Maybe I should wait after the next ramp test to wonder if LV will be enough to reach or exceed last seasons level.
how is everyone’s high volume training going? I’m a week and a half (~8 SSB HV workouts) away from finishing. This was my first go-at a HV SSB over the winter, as I’ve had to recover from a knee surgery twice over the past two years, and it left me doing the mid volume plans.
Couple thoughts -
1: doing long sweet spot workouts stacked together are tough, but it gets “easier.” I can handle the volume, the intensity, and the hours. Tues/Wed/Thurs for me are always inside, on my kickr in erg mode, and then the Sat/Sun workouts are usually done outside.
2: caffeine prior to my workouts gave me a serious increase in average heart rate! (duh) I don’t like when my heart rate jumps up into threshold, which is 185bpm, and if I don’t ingest caffeine prior to the workout, I’m about on average 10% lower. I’ll survive.
3: I’ve been getting a lot of flack regarding the training plan, from fellow racers in the area. sucks, because I’ve been doing this same kind of winter training program for the past three years. It’s frustrating to say the least.
4: I’m getting faster.
I’ll start up Short Power Build HV during the 3rd week of Feb.
Good luck all, and happy training!
Some interesting observations from the end of my aerobic base. For most of the off season I was doing a lot of long endurance rides; averaging 15 hours a week in December and about 12 in January.
- I was basically at my all-time high 5 minute power with essentially zero VO2 work
- My ftp is in it’s normal base starting point, but I can hold it for a much longer period of time compared to previous years.
- I’m a lot less fatigued as I transition into proper sweetspot work now
I’m interested to see what happens next now that I’m doing sweetspot work again.
I’m on week 5 of SSB2 HV and I just got through Wright Peak -1, it was my first time doing it in a while, because I subbed in 4.5hrs endurance for this one. I’m feeling pretty good, I’m not at a point where workouts seem obviously easy like I was last year, but I suspect I was undershooting with my FTP last year because HV SSB was a cakewalk. So, I’ve been doing these with an FTP of 295 and I really wouldn’t be surprised if I don’t bump it up for build. Stuff has felt appropriately hard
Also, I’d really like to do 5hrs endurance to cap off base (I’ve done 4 and 4.5 the past couple of weeks) because I’m curious to see what effect this type of endurance work along with SSB might have on my fitness.
This is more a question for those currently on HV - I’m currently starting SSBMV1 but putting in 13-16 hour training weeks with a mix of additional endurance/tempo rides to the plan. After more or less not riding for 3ish months, I did an FTP test and came out at ~4 W/kg. I also have started tracking my calories because I feel like I could stand to lose a little bit of weight (5’11 / 161lbs). I’m definitely not out of shape by any means but just feel like my general body composition could improve a little. My question for all you on HV is, should I try and eat a 250-500 kcal daily to do this and run the risk of being/getting rundown OR should I just eat right around what I burn and let the training + recovery take care of overall body comp?
My first crack at HV plans. Got through SSBHV1 and now doing 2.
Doing Tues to Friday indoors, Sat outdoors on a local hill, and Sunday Group ride for extra hours and Endurance instead of the Sunday workout
I’m hanging in there, which has been a mind battle as much as a physical one. Some days i am psyched out before starting, but start i do, and i get there at 100%. At 56 I probably wouldn’t have tried this if Plan Builder hadn’t said it was the right thing to do to.
Re the eating - i am eating a lot extra on the trainer to get me through 90 -120 mins each day.
Just curious. What was the makeup of your 15hr weeks from a high level? 7x2hr rides a week or were you getting into longer rides? Are you following any HV TR plans?
Halfway through the first week of HV-SSB2. FTP went up 9 watts after SSB1 and the (2) workouts thus far have been fine. I’ve been testing on the weekend prior and then copying tuesday week 2’s workout in place of the ramp test. They all seem to have 60 min at sweet spot despite the difference in duration.
Planning on doing 1-2 workouts a week on my TT bike as I had tested both last weekend. Debating which workouts to do for that. Trying to close down the difference in power between my road and TT positions some (at about 91-92% TT to road right now).
Will see how it goes, in any case.
I’m not following a TR plan, using a coach. I use the calendar, workout creator and the app frequently for structured workouts.
The biggest volume weeks consisted of a few shorter commutes, one day in the gym, a sprint or MTB workout and two large days on the weekends, usually 4 hours minimum each day.
Interesting. Similar experience here on less volume. After an extended 5 month off period I was detrained. Starting around Sept 1 did Trad Base 1 and Trad Base 2 (mostly outside) averaging about 8 hours/week. Was doing leg work 2-3 days a week in the gym. At end of those two months:
- did a short power test and was within 23W (~4%) of all-time high 1-min power (from 3 years ago)
- was able to hold a conversation at upper sweet spot off the back of a group ride (never able to do that in past)
No structured training above low tempo. Some of the endurance rides included a handful or two of full gas sprints for 8 or 20 seconds (like TR’s Bays workout).
Thanks.
So far, so good!
October I did 4 twelve hour weeks outdoors mainly sitting in Z2. Then I progressed to TB1 into TB2 before traveling for christmas and taking two weeks of lower volume training. Now I am half way through TB3 and it is starting to get hard, but I’m managing. My original plan was to do the full TB → SSB progression but SSB1 looks like too much sweet spot and not enough endurance. So now, after TB3 I am going on a training camp then I will repeat TB3 after the camp and go into SSB2. This is about as far as I’m willing to plan in advance because I don’t really need to be in race shape until July and my A race is at the end of August.
It’s tough to see due to the scale of the PR chart, but this is probably the most interesting thing I’ve seen from HV
Between 2:45 and 5:00 I’ve added around 40-55 watts to that power duration during the course of this season compared to last year, which is somewhere in the 25-30% gain. Now obviously there is some selection bias at play because I wasn’t necessarily doing a ton of work during those durations in previous years, but its still something I wanted to mention for folks.
I raced yesterday, then got on this morning and did 4 hours of endurance+sweet spot work and yeah, i was tired, but I was still able to muster 70mins of sweetspot with a reasonable RPE.
I’ve been doing some experimentation the last few weeks, modifying UP the Mid-Vol plan to a high volume plan for 2 main reasons; 1) i do all my weekday workouts waking up at 440am on the bike at 5am. Can’t make the 2hr sessions work and 2) i didn’t want to have that much sweet spot in my planning, wanted to still prioritize some Z2 work to avoid burn out this early in the season.
Basically did the weekday workouts for Tues and Thurs as prescribed, extended the Wednesday, added a Friday recovery ride at 65%, and added time to both the Saturday and Sunday rides with 90min and 60min z2 blocks.
All weeks have been around 11hrs, though the over under workouts have really had me buckled. Even with proper fuelling on the bike in the AM, bottle with 85g carbs, its whipped me hard and caused failures.
Feeling super strong and the 600+ TSS weeks consistently have really felt good. Sleep like a baby as well.
I did SSB1 Mid-Vol in this way, then 3 weeks of Gen Build, and now I am heading into a full round of SSB2 Mid-Vol with the similiar extensions built into it. Hoping to see a nice FTP bump this week when i test…
Into week 8 of general build and I am thankful for the recovery week! Generally compliance was high with most sessions done outside but more inside than planned due to a couple of storms and local race cancellations.
Hit 253w FTP after the first half and keen to see how the ramp goes after a week over recovery. This a pb for FTP but also seen SB power numbers from 2.5-5 minutes on a group ride this weekend so it feels like things are coming together!