Had to lower Leconte intensity to 90% after 1st set

The amount of times you prayed for death? :thinking:

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Well, I should have clarified that you can’t drop out of the targeted energy system or you change the entire workout. My point being that many people will just stop the workout rather than see if all they need to do is lower the range in which they are working. If VO2 Max lies somewhere between 110-130% of FTP and you can not sustain the upper range with good form or can’t complete the interval there is no reason why you shouldn’t drop as low as 110%. And if you are still blowing up, just shift to an Endurance pace and ride it out. But quitting altogether, although an option, should be last on the list.

Other options could be backpedaling during the intervals to give yourself a break so you can attempt the hard effort again. But if a person can’t maintain 110% FTP during an interval(again, assuming this falls within the range of the energy system objective) then the interval must be too long for their fitness (or state that day). All backpedaling does is shorten the interval, which is fine, but introduces yet another variation. It’s just another VO2 Max workout. Someone invariably asks ā€œWhich is the more effective VO2 Max workout then? 6 min intervals at 110% or 3 min intervals at 120%?ā€ Answer, they are variations in a theme and really depend on what you are trying to improve.

These questions are too hard to answer in a forum with generalized responses because the accurate answer needs more context. The challenge of the self-coached athlete! :slight_smile:

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Best quote in this entire article…" Bailouts are not encouragement to take the easy road when intensity and suffering are the order of the day. Intervals by their very nature hurt, and when you bypass this discomfort, it will come at the expense of your training progress.

The take-home message is to use these sparingly, only when you need them and not simply when you want them - big difference."

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Like any tool, there are good and bad ways to use them. Ideally we won’t have to use them, but they can make the difference between a total loss (quitting) and salvaging a full workout sometimes (intelligently adjusted).

Best to learn all the options and when it makes sense to apply each one. It is unavoidable that we will need them a few times in a full Base, Build, Specialty round. That’s too long with too many workouts to hope to nail them all.

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I got through Leconte today at 100% on the intervals without any back pedaling; however, on the second and third sets, I paused the app during the one minute breaks and took an extra minute to rest a little more. I’m going to create my own version of Leconte to add the extra minute so I don’t have to worry about pausing.

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I’ve taken you advice. If the power range targets the high end of a zone I’ll start by pulling the intensity back to the lower end for the next workout. If I still have trouble then I’ll take short backpedals to allow me to continue to gut through the workout. That way you are still getting as much training time ā€œin zoneā€ as possible.

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Did Leconte as well, in trouble at the end of first interval. Since then lowered the work out to 95%, still struggled so much. Finding it was very hard to hold the power target after each surge. Legs felt very tired. In fact, not able to fully complete 2 out of three base 2 low volume workouts: Spencer+2 IF .84/.92, Lamarck IF .92/.92, Leconte IF only .83/.90. Start questioning my FTP set too high. It is time for me to do another FTP after next week recovery and going into build. Not sure I wish to see my FTP increase or decreasešŸ˜‚. Seems I’m really struggling with the recovery after the big surge over FTP. Not able to shake off the fatigue quickly is big problem. Even my heart rate not in threshold zone, my legs just can’t continue. More strength work needed or? How can I learn to tolerate the fatigue, mental or muscle power?

The final week of SSBLVII is a brute! All three workouts have an IF of +0.90. Workouts like that are no joke. I wouldn’t be too harsh on yourself. I think it’s fair to say that most TR users see that week on their calendar and roll their eyes.

Take the recovery week and then test. Looking forward is your best option.

Are you new to structured training? How are things like your sleep and nutrition? Are you getting enough rest and do you fuel before and during workouts like these?

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Yes. New to structured bike training. Started mid May with SSBase1 and then 2. Cruised through base 1, FTP increased 5 watts, but struggling some of the tough based 2 threshold and VO2 max workouts at the end. I think ability to tolerate the uncomfortableness and leg fatigue from biking may be the main reason. I was a runner so I could handle the cardiovascular side of things but rarely had to deal with muscle fatigue as intense as biking. Guess I just need to stick to the training plan and gradually increase my pain threshold. I do fuel pretty good before the rides, sleep or stress are not the issue either. Thanks for the feedback. Good to get other rider’s perspective. I felt the workouts are too hard. It was called Sweet Spot base but, way too many threshold and VO2 max workouts. I thought you supposed to do 80/20 training? May be because in order to train efficiently indoors, it had to be much harder than traditional outdoor training method(time in the saddle)? It doesn’t feel good to fail a workout for sure. Do you feel TR ramp test is good test or inflate the FTP numbers a bit. My husband uses the 20 min FTP test and seems less struggling on his workouts. He uses a different training program not TR.

I think it’s fair to say that a number of TR users share your thoughts. Sweet Spot Base 2 does contain a number of Threshold and VO2 workouts. I’m probably the least ā€˜science’ based TR user you could hope to find on this forum so my guess is as follows.

TR as a training program is aimed at the Time Poor cyclist. Doing hours of endurance or even Sweet Spot isn’t an option for most of the TR users so a range of intensity needs to be used. This range helps promote adaptation and keeps the training interesting and challenging. Plus, if you just did Sweet Spot, that’s all your body would be good at.

The Ramp Test really divides opinion. Some TR users believe that it favours those with an ability towards VO2 efforts. I’m not so sure. I enjoy VO2 work but I’ve never felt that it does me any favours when minute 15 roles around :hot_face: It also removes the need for or to even understand pacing an effort.

That said, I’m not really using TR to chase an FTP number. I use it for training and the FTP the Ramp Test has given me consistently ensures that the workouts are challenging and I can tell without question that I’m improving my cycling fitness.

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Leconte is an absolute beast. I managed Mary Austin -1 last week relatively ok but found Leconte much tougher. I completed Leconte yesterday at full intensity but had to take 2 short back pedals on the final 10 minutes, but I got through it. It is one that just wears you down and you are really fighting it towards the end. It’s the most tired I have felt after a TR session. Glad to have it behind me though. I still have Spencer +2 to do on SSB 2 as I substituted in an extra Vo2 session this week-Dade -1-as an intermediate step before the 3 mninute horrors of Spencer +2 which I will do on Tuesday next before my recovery week.

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I have nothing especially relevant to add to this post re: Leconte other than to simply thank you for making me smile with your genuinely heartfelt comment describing the rigors of Spencer +2:

For what it’s worth, I can attest to the fact that this workout has proven to be the most difficult workout I’ve done in my 16 months of diligently doing TR workouts. Sure, I technically completed Spencer +2 though it was not without first dropping the intensity of the third interval by 10% followed by a previously unheard of drop in intensity of 20% for the final three intervals (effectively making them each FTP-level) to which I could STILL barely hang on to the end of each of the three minute intervals. All the tell-tale signs were present: cadence falling precipitously; heart rate nearly to the max; and eyes staring at the timer to see if it’s still working :hourglass_flowing_sand: :flushed:

I’m sure there’s a number of factors contributing to my poor performance with Spencer +2 and that’s another matter for another day. In the meantime, I’ll be hoping you fared well in your recent attempt and will be looking forward to both of us one day solving the 6x3-minute VO2max repeats at 120% FTP completion mystery that at this point so far seems unsolvable. :innocent:

[EDIT]: here’s a screenshot of Tuesday’s date with death (aka Spencer +2)

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Hi all, my first post on TR forum! I tried TR for the first time in December and as I’m now finishing SSB2 LV, I thought I could share some beginners experience. I nailed all workouts in SSB1, often adding some % in intensity. I increased my FTP prior SSB2 and things were going very well (but rarely uping the intensity in this phase) until Mary Austin -1 where I started falling apart in the last bit. Following Spencer+2 and Lamarck were tough but doable, but Leconte broke me (despite a good night sleep, proper training time and so on). I pulled the plug and decided to settle into the recovery week.

Is it the sustained work that suffers the most towards the end of a loading block? What’s your experience?

Those 2 are infamous for being tough! It’s money in the bank even at a little lower intensity. Those last two weeks are tough with fatigue built up. You did your best and you should be proud making it through even at a slight decrease in intensity!

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The fact that you got those two done is note worthy. Neither are a walk in the park. Personally I view Leconte as a prelude to the Build Phase.

By the end of SSB II, I’m certainly looking forward to the Recovery Week and my outdoor rides are definitely slow and steady :rofl:

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Thanks! I’m not stressing about the fails too much :slight_smile: in a way looking forward to the magic of recovery and ramp test in about a week!

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Thanks!
Yeah I was expecting Spencer to break me after the Mary Austin difficulties. Maybe I’m just most natural at VO2 repeats? Who knows :slight_smile:

Worst thing about spencer was the feeling of drowning. I had a seriously panicked feeling. The lizard brain was fully activated. I think the other times Ive done it I must have been stronger compared to the FTP test from 5 weeks prior because I never put in any notes about how hard it was.

BUT I didnt quit!

FWIW I think I didnt eat enough in the middle of the SSB MV2 to completely recover (grow) throughout the block so Mary A and Leconte we blood and guts at the end. BUT I didnt quit them either!

I feel so much better reading this thread. Couldn’t get going in the 3rd set of Leconte - did the first two doubles no problem, started the last third and there was nothing there so just did Z2 for the remainder. Spencer I was surprisingly strong. Was thinking it was late night, plus doing interval running. This morning after a few days since, my sinuses cleared, so i think a big part was that I actually might have been mildly ill (my daughter is). Previously i have only been doing the Tri plans (3 years on/off TR), so this is my first foray in SSB2.

Leconte is VERY hard. Every set made me want to quit cycling hahaha.