Did a ramp test about 2 weeks ago, started at what I guess was default of 185, and made it through 16 steps, stopping at around 275. On that final step, my heart rate was 185.
Would love to do ai FTP detection, but everytime I try it says that I too recently did a ramp test.
I did! Happy to help. You asked me if ‘surely you should be at or very near [emptying the tank] for VO2max during a VO2max session?’
If you’re adding that much intensity to a VO2 Max workout, and its not difficult, the benchmark for your efforts per zone (FTP being that benchmark we use) is likey too low.
If you need further help making sure nothing is amiss with either your Ramp Test results or AI FTP Detection, please contact support@trainerroad.com. Other athletes here can help you specultate what may be going on, but ultimately, our support team has the best and most accurate visibility to the full scope of your FTP changes, internal ride logs, the changes within your workouts, etc. They’ll be happy to take a look and provide more insight!
Delete the most recent entry in your FTP history on the TR website then you can get past the 2 week rule. Dont tell anyone I told you.
There’s currently a 14 day enforced “gap” between AI FTP “tests”, if you want to run aiFTP then delete your most recent FTP test or tests that are within that 14 day period.
No, I never said {emptying the tank]
Sorry totally disagree, the workout has context here, 115% for 30 seconds with 30 seconds rest, that is not a VO2max workout. Even adding 25% it still isn’t for semi / well trained people.
Okay, got FTP detection to work. New FTP is 203, which still seems really low. Most of my rides, usually an hour long, will average 230-240 watts.
Please check in with support@trainerroad.com, the team can make sure all of your rides/workouts are being accounted for and provide a fix if applicable! We for sure want to know when things arent right!
Personally, I think if the OP is saying they they are struggling to stay below 200%ftp on intervals that is enough grounds to doubt the FTP setting - not saying that it’s definitely wrong - but enough to be suspicious.
More importantly for me is the fact that currently adaptive training does not take into account manual increases in intensity - so with the OP ranking that workout “moderate” they won’t be dished out a harder workout next time.
All that being said, I just looked at “grassy ridge -3” (which is the PL 1.6 workout the OP seems to have done)… It does look very very easy in its unadjusted form… might not be the best workout to gauge fitness on?
There is something not right here. Agree with @IvyAudrain contact support, in the context of FTPd and your hour rides. Grassy Ridge could be a red herring, the other information reveals that something is amiss.
From [https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/4415864080155-How-to-Use-AI-FTP-Detection] (https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/4415864080155-How-to-Use-AI-FTP-Detection) you need at least 12 TR workouts for AI FTP to work. From your original post you’ve only done 7 or so.
They don’t need to be TR workouts.
If thats the average of most of your rides, have you given it any thought why you “only” got to 275 on your ramp test?
Below is a pic from Coggan’s 5+ year old explanation to stop using %FTP for analyzing/prescribing things like Grassy Ridge (30/30-sec intervals), where I added some comments in red:
Ok those are max efforts, and for 200 seasoned athletes the difference at 30 seconds ranging from 130% FTP to 350% FTP.
His other example is two world class competitors, one can hold 150% of FTP for 4 minutes, while the other can only hold it for 1 minute. Hopefully the pic and these two competitors should convince you they need very different %FTP for 4-minute vo2max intervals.
For vo2max work it appears TR uses %FTP and Workout Levels (WL). In other words some higher WL rated vo2max workouts use a higher %FTP to accommodate the reality that above threshold work needs to be individulized.
Good question. Idk if it matters, but I did the ramp test on a wheel-on trainer, so I was constantly changing gears trying to stay in the 70-80 rpm range and while also staying at the power level for the step I was on. I have since purchased a smart trainer, so maybe I should do the ramp test again. Any general advice for how to do a ramp test would also be appreciated.
Riding indoors always seems to be more difficult for me than riding outdoors.
You mentioned that you did your recent workout outside so I assume you have a power meter?
Did you record power from your power meter during the ramp test or does your current wheel on trainer record power?
If not I’d recommend trying to keep your power source consistent - even with your new trainer.
Ahh okay, well the power meter I used for the ramp test was a set of asioma pedals, which are not on the bike that’s now my dedicated trainer bike. But I think I’ll put them on the dedicated trainer bike, paired to my bike computer, and then also see what my smart trainer says paired to my phone. Two separate data feeds and see if theres a huge delta between the two.
Just looked at the ramp test FAQ, and saw that it’s recommended to take the ramp test in ERG mode on a smart trainer. I have a feeling I’ll do much better next time around. I also think the first time taking the test, I may have stopped a little earlier than I could have.
If you feel anything less than “ruined” you likely didn’t go hard enough in your FTP test.
There’s usually no question if you went hard enough. If you do question it… You didn’t go hard enough.
Which is fine. First FTPs are hard to nail. I still struggle after doing a ton of them. I pretty much always under-test. I struggle mentally to go all the way.
Luckily TR made it so I never need to do it again!
But if your FTP way too low you should definitely retest.
If you have switched both trainer and power source since your ramp test I would highly reccomend doing a new ramp test with the setup you intend to use going forward.
And you don’t need to decide when to stop a ramp test, your legs does that for you.
Just wanted to post an update in here. I took another ramp test yesterday, this time with a bit more preparation (mostly mental), and also taking the test on my smart trainer in ERG mode. Not having to worry about changing gears or dropping cadence at any point was a HUGE benefit. I could just focus on my breathing, focus on keeping calm and just generally focus on the test. Seriously this felt like it made a massive difference compared to taking the test on my wheel-on “dumb” trainer.
Anyway, the new FTP which I think is much closer to reality is 234. And if this is still too low, it’s only maybe 10 watts. Reason I say that is because I did try a couple rides on my trainer (saris h3) with my power meter pedals on the bike, giving me two different power meter sources (pedals vs trainer). I found that after an hour long ride, the NP of the pedals was about 10 watts higher than that of the trainer.
Anyway, this new FTP seems more accurate and so we’ll see how workouts feel based off of it.
Side note: on both of my ramp tests, I found that my legs were not my limiter. On this last test I tapped out with a HR of 186, hitting the start of my final minute in the test with a HR of around 182. The first ramp test, I think I stopped around 182. One thing I feel could also have been a limiter was my cooling, im only using one fan and it wasn’t even hitting my face, which felt far from ideal.
