Personally, I think if the OP is saying they they are struggling to stay below 200%ftp on intervals that is enough grounds to doubt the FTP setting - not saying that it’s definitely wrong - but enough to be suspicious.
More importantly for me is the fact that currently adaptive training does not take into account manual increases in intensity - so with the OP ranking that workout “moderate” they won’t be dished out a harder workout next time.
All that being said, I just looked at “grassy ridge -3” (which is the PL 1.6 workout the OP seems to have done)… It does look very very easy in its unadjusted form… might not be the best workout to gauge fitness on?
Below is a pic from Coggan’s 5+ year old explanation to stop using %FTP for analyzing/prescribing things like Grassy Ridge (30/30-sec intervals), where I added some comments in red:
Ok those are max efforts, and for 200 seasoned athletes the difference at 30 seconds ranging from 130% FTP to 350% FTP.
His other example is two world class competitors, one can hold 150% of FTP for 4 minutes, while the other can only hold it for 1 minute. Hopefully the pic and these two competitors should convince you they need very different %FTP for 4-minute vo2max intervals.
For vo2max work it appears TR uses %FTP and Workout Levels (WL). In other words some higher WL rated vo2max workouts use a higher %FTP to accommodate the reality that above threshold work needs to be individulized.
Good question. Idk if it matters, but I did the ramp test on a wheel-on trainer, so I was constantly changing gears trying to stay in the 70-80 rpm range and while also staying at the power level for the step I was on. I have since purchased a smart trainer, so maybe I should do the ramp test again. Any general advice for how to do a ramp test would also be appreciated.
Riding indoors always seems to be more difficult for me than riding outdoors.
Ahh okay, well the power meter I used for the ramp test was a set of asioma pedals, which are not on the bike that’s now my dedicated trainer bike. But I think I’ll put them on the dedicated trainer bike, paired to my bike computer, and then also see what my smart trainer says paired to my phone. Two separate data feeds and see if theres a huge delta between the two.
Just looked at the ramp test FAQ, and saw that it’s recommended to take the ramp test in ERG mode on a smart trainer. I have a feeling I’ll do much better next time around. I also think the first time taking the test, I may have stopped a little earlier than I could have.
If you feel anything less than “ruined” you likely didn’t go hard enough in your FTP test.
There’s usually no question if you went hard enough. If you do question it… You didn’t go hard enough.
Which is fine. First FTPs are hard to nail. I still struggle after doing a ton of them. I pretty much always under-test. I struggle mentally to go all the way.
Luckily TR made it so I never need to do it again!
But if your FTP way too low you should definitely retest.
If you have switched both trainer and power source since your ramp test I would highly reccomend doing a new ramp test with the setup you intend to use going forward.
And you don’t need to decide when to stop a ramp test, your legs does that for you.
Just wanted to post an update in here. I took another ramp test yesterday, this time with a bit more preparation (mostly mental), and also taking the test on my smart trainer in ERG mode. Not having to worry about changing gears or dropping cadence at any point was a HUGE benefit. I could just focus on my breathing, focus on keeping calm and just generally focus on the test. Seriously this felt like it made a massive difference compared to taking the test on my wheel-on “dumb” trainer.
Anyway, the new FTP which I think is much closer to reality is 234. And if this is still too low, it’s only maybe 10 watts. Reason I say that is because I did try a couple rides on my trainer (saris h3) with my power meter pedals on the bike, giving me two different power meter sources (pedals vs trainer). I found that after an hour long ride, the NP of the pedals was about 10 watts higher than that of the trainer.
Anyway, this new FTP seems more accurate and so we’ll see how workouts feel based off of it.
Side note: on both of my ramp tests, I found that my legs were not my limiter. On this last test I tapped out with a HR of 186, hitting the start of my final minute in the test with a HR of around 182. The first ramp test, I think I stopped around 182. One thing I feel could also have been a limiter was my cooling, im only using one fan and it wasn’t even hitting my face, which felt far from ideal.
So a couple tips that may or may not apply to you:
This is for you…Using different power sources (especially if one is Assiomas and the other is Virtual power) has a strong chance of giving you different results
Cooling. Outside you have 20mph of a full stream of air to evaporate your sweat and cool you down. For indoors you want to have so much air and fans going over you that you are barely (if at all) dripping sweat.
Position. If you are using two different bikes indoors and out then make sure that they are pretty close in position
Cadence. You mentioned 70-80 cadence. This could be perfect for you but is much lower than most people. I would maybe try pedaling at 85-95 for a bit and see if that makes things a bit easier on your muscles.
Inertia. Lots of wheel on trainers have very low inertia due to a small flywheel and a not too heavy wheel. Outside you have the inertia of your whole body and bike that probably weighs north of 150lbs. This can be a big difference and leads to the feeling of having to really ‘push’ the pedals all the way around vs ‘spinning’. Think climbing vs riding fast on a flat/descent. This difference can be a lot depending on how you normally ride. On a wheel on trainer there isn’t a ton you can do but for a smart trainer in ERG you can use different gears where ‘easier’ gears have lower inertia and ‘harder’ gears have higher inertia.
Motivation. This can sometimes be super hard inside. All you’re doing is staying still and pedaling your brains out looking at a wall, laptop, phone or something else. You don’t get rewarded in the same way outside with speed, wind, different goals like tops of climbs or road signs, etc. So it can be hard to dig as deep as you might outside.
