Hey there,
I want to try to execute workouts without any app only using a Garmin computer. I use a Tax Neo 2t trainer. The bike on the trainer (mtb 1x-12) has a left-side powermeter (which would then provide input)
The Garmin device (Edge 540) has 2 modes in addition to the ERG mode: Grade and Resistance. Currently, when using the TR app, I do not execute threshold/Vo2 and anaerobic intervals in the ERG mode; but I do them in resistance mode switching to resistance mode in the TR app.
The main question is what would be the best setup for V02 intervals, especially 30/30 or 40/20 style. I understand that I must play with gears to find the right combo etc. My main concern is that while TR app has a powermatch function, and Garmin computers donāt have this, there will be a 10-15 w difference between the powermeter and the trainer power.
So I would like a simple recommendation or practical experience. Iāve watched all the videos and read all the forums, but Iām still unsure about the best way to do it.
just try what works for youā¦ I donāt use TR anymore, I make my own workouts in garmin connect, but I donāt do the short vo2 stuffā¦ even with TR I found them in hard to hit correctly in ERG mode (either too easy or too hard), and I realy donāt like resistance mode and shifting for short intervalsā¦) I prefer 1-2 minute vo2 work as smallest intervals, which is for me doable in ERG mode.
so if you really want to do this, choose a resistance level, and a gear that works for your target. then it doesnāt really matter if you see your PM power or neo powerā¦ (I think the neo might be more accurate instead of a single sided PMā¦ a balance of e.g. 48/52 is very common, which means that your PM reads 2% lower then your neo (IF they would read the same)ā¦ 2% on a 400 watt target is also 8 watts. And the idea of NOT using ERG is that you do it more no feel than a precise targetā¦ right?
So I currently do all my indoor workouts with just a Garmin Edge 840 and a Kickr (V5? idk but its like ~4 years old). Iāve got various PMs but itās worked the same with Stages (Left only) and dual sided like Quarq or P2M.
I always run it in the Grade mode (Itās what it goes into when I choose āfree rideā on the Garmin) and just push the lap button. I havenāt tried other modes cause that mode has just worked for me from the beginning. It basically is a simulated grade, so like out on the road, faster gear means higher power and changing the grade just changes the slope of that power increase (you probably already know this from your research).
I change the grade around based on the workout Iām doing. Mostly so I donāt run out of gears on hard workouts. So Iāll do like 0-1% for a VO2 workout and that usually puts something like a VO2 effort down toward the 14ish tooth cog. But with an MTB you likely have easier gears so you might need to go higher. But on an endurance ride I usually do like -1% so that I can put out lower power but still have the higher inertia feel like outside.
To actually answer your questionā¦
This doesnāt matter at all if youāre not in ERG mode.
The reason powermatch is good is because it adds your PM into the Trainer to TR app feedback loop. So instead of just commanding the trainer to do 200W without considering the power difference of the PM, it will look at your PM and say āOh well the PM is saying youāre putting out 210W so lets actually tell the Trainer to do what it thinks is 190W so that the PM (the riders gold source of power) says 200Wā.
But when youāre not doing ERG mode there isnāt that feedback loop from Garmin or TR to the trainer. Itās just looking at your intended simulated grade and using a fixed speed/resistance lookup table and itās totally up to you to modulate force and cadence to get the right power.
That got kinda long but hopefully it made sense. If not, feel free to ask any qualifying questions.
Yes, for V02 intervals Iām paying attention on HR first and then on power. Trying to hit TiZ (90% of max HR) in terms of HR. Power is more important when doing anaerobic and threshold work.
How have you solved the problem of the trainer switching back to erg mode at the next interval segment, even if you start a workout in grade mode? And Garmin devices show a lower power (for the trainer) than what I push with the power meter. Is it so that it doesnāt matter what Garmin shows as trainer power because the actual reading comes from my powermeter and I need to push X watts anyway to follow my target?
Reading forums, Iāve got the impression that in structured workouts it is not possible to follow the pre-programmed workout (TrainingPeaks workout) only using certain (grade/resistance) modes. Like if you want to do a workout using the grade mode only, for example, you have to memorize the whole structure and then follow it without āgraphical assistanceā on your Edge unit. This means not selecting todayās workout on the Garmin device but simply starting free ride mode, selecting grade/resistance and then doing the workout by changing gears/cadence/grade or resistance rate?
I have paired with Edge: the left-side powermeter (Stage), smart-trainer cadence/speed sensor and trainer (as a unit). The trainer power sensor is switched off because it is not possible to use 2 power sensors to control the trainer at the same time anyway, and Garmin turns one of them off
Hmm, are you running TR at the same time? I donāt use TR so Iām not sure how to handle that if so. But my wife does and Iāve realized that in order to get my Garmin to control the trainer I have to quit TR on the laptop first.
So when I connect my trainer and PM to my Garmin it is always recording my PM power and not my trainer. I think that just happened by default.
So I donāt typically use preprogrammed workouts when on the trainer. Most of my workouts are super simple (like 4x15 or something) so no memorization required and I just hit the lap button. But I will do programmed workouts with things like 30/30s just cause thatās too much to keep track of on my own but these happen 99% outside.
BUT I just tried it sitting at my desk and the trainer is in Grade mode but as soon as I start the workout it jumps to erg mode. Now, Iām not riding so idk if it will jump back to erg mode but I was able to get back to grade mode by opening up the menu (top right button on my 840), going to ātrainer Modeā, the hitting gray button with the three dots until it goes back to āgrade modeā. That might be slightly different on the 540 without a touchscreen but I bet itās similar.
I only have my trainer paired as a āsmart trainerā not again as a power source so maybe thatās causing you that issue. So Iāve got paired:
PM (stages, quarq, etc depending on the bike)
Kickr and a smart trainer (this sends speed and cadence as well)
same here in terms of what is paired. I also donāt have the trainerās powermeter paired. Just the trainer as a unit (as a smart trainer, all the same as in your setup). And Iām tried/trying to execute workouts without TR app; this is the goal The annoying thing is that I also can switch modes with Edge 540. This is not a problem per see, but one thing is when the workout is like 4x15ā when you switch back to grade mode 4x, and another issue is when doing 30/30 inside
Hmm yeah, idk the last time I ran a preprogrammed workout on the trainer so I have no experience with it switching modes automatically. Sorry.
One thing to tryā¦
It might be switching to Erg because your intervals have a power target. As long as your workout is simple in terms of power then you can build the workout in TrainingPeaks with RPE target and not power targets. Thatās what I do so that when Iām outside it just shows up as āhardā or āeasyā but not ā400Wā or whatever. So that might be worth trying
The annoying thing is that I also can switch modes with Edge 540. This is not a problem per see, but one thing is when the workout is like 4x15ā when you switch back to grade mode 4x, and another issue is when doing 30/30 inside