Yes. Not what I was responding to though. They were trying to say any adaptations mean the plan was bad in the first place.
1 Like
Yeah, I deleted my plan and scheduled the traditional plan starting this week. It has already sent me a bunch of adaptions to the plan I havent even started yet from the zwift rides I did over the weekend. Can you turn the AI off?
On the desktop, settings/account/adaptive training and disable it should do it?
2 Likes
Not my experience at all! I follow the plan almost exactly and get constant adaptions. At least every day. If I open the app more than once a day, I will probably get more than one adaption. It often suggests an adaption after an interval workout and then goes back to the original plan the next day.
I just consider the future workouts to be placeholders for the various types. There’s no underlying assumption that if I do everything perfectly I’ll progress just like those workouts do. When I get there, I’ll get the protocol, maybe higher, maybe lower than the original placeholder. Lower PL doesn’t necessarily mean I’m falling behind or did anything wrong. The whole point of machine learning AI (or a live coach) tweaking as you go is to dial up the right workout each time, not pick them months ahead of time.
5 Likes
If only this were true. I was very diligent this season — didn’t miss, mostly didn’t fail workouts. It was still nonstop adaptations. The other weird thing is that it seems to depend on the client I’m using. I could look on my phone and see no adaptations but then logging in to the web client serves ‘em up.
This has been discussed ad-naseum, but I really wish TR would stick to serving adaptations to when it receives new information and I’m really not sure why that isn’t the case. The adaptation with no new information makes the plan seem arbitrary and impacts my faith in it.
Of course, if I get my wish and TR integrates Apple Health, AT will have a nonstop stream of new information but, until that day, it does appear to be throwing bones.
It looks to me from the message that it checks every time I load the careers page.
Feels like there’s a flag not being set somewhere, something like check planned workout gets set to false after a check for changes. It then won’t check until it’s true, which wouldn’t be set until X days or ingested event. This would reduce the checks, probably saved a few pennies in computing power if everyone checked fewer times.
I should say clearly I don’t know this, just idle speculation.
Unless you have a bunch of runs, hikes, yoga that you are not inputting into TR then nothing from apple health is going to go into TR to change adaptions. They may be collecting other data from someone like Garmin, but they aren’t using things like sleep data or steps in adaptations.
As noted above, time is a new input. Time since your last threshold workout may adjust your next threshold down if it degraded your levels because of that time. Not doing something doesn’t mean that there isn’t new data, that is new data.
75% of your VO2/threshold days fall on yellow days? 
There is all sorts of health data that TR could use if they added support for the various fitness trackers as that gives a clearer view into recovery. They don’t currently do this, but I would imagine doing so would be a big part of the motivation for doing that work.
I also disagree that time is a new input. Time progresses at a relatively constant and predictable rate so AT is probably already accounting for such in its workout assignments. It does not take advanced software to know that Thursday is three days from now.
Nate talked about this in a podcast at one point. You’ll get different workouts in the morning versus later in the day. There’s 2 things going on 1) time from your last workout and 2) some people perform better at different times of the day. For example, if I do a specific workout first thing in the morning it will be much more difficult than doing that same workout 4 hours after I get up.
2 Likes
The problem is everyone’s stuff is just a little different. Unless they are all syncing the raw data and then TR is going to figure out a way to determine what garmin vs apple did with sleep data its mostly useless.
HRV is too imperfect to just blanketly apply it from a bunch of devices to say RLGL reliably. They may end up eventually using some of it but I can’t imagine they’d make it that important of a factor.
Just really clarifying that they don’t use this if you have a Garmin, this comes up anytime apple health does and everyone assumes this is all being done, and its not.
Time is 100% an input whether you like it or not. It is built into the system as I noted to degrade levels over time. They also still don’t’ know what you might do between a tuesday and thursday workout, they can’t guess.
People seem to be opening the app a lot so it also probably factors in that you are going to use it, not wait from thursday 3 days from now. So it might be altering stuff based on what it thinks you might try to do if you knock out a train now.
As I have said I’ve thought it adapts way to much, not saying that isn’t a problem. But we can’t pretend time isn’t an input, especially when they have said it is.
…but it’s not actually variable in any way that matters to training. In three days it will be Thursday. If I don’t do any workouts between now and then, how is the state of the training world on Thursday not 100% predictable today? I get that, were I to open the app and ask for a workout on Wednesday, that might not be what is assigned for Thursday, but that’s not the behavior I (or others) are seeing in the app and find so perplexing. If I had a coach who told me to do XXX workout on Thursday who randomly called me on Tuesday and said “let’s do YYY instead” and then again on Wednesday and said “actually, let’s do ZZZ”, I would have many of the same questions I have about plan adaptations (actually, I just suck it up, but the argument here is such nonsense I can’t let it go) in TR.
I do like what the poster said above about time of workout mattering. Having that be part of the inputs makes total sense, at least from a future adaptation point of view. I’m not sure I’ve seen “oh, you opened the app a bit late today, so let’s change the workout”, but maybe I just haven’t noticed because my workout times are quite fixed.
And what if I told you coaches will even modify a workout… during the workout! 
7 Likes
I think that’s even been proposed for TR in the new features thread! I think I would still classify that as “new information received” in most cases.
1 Like
It seems like adaptive training is looking at your upcoming workout being x amount of time from your last workout. It’s not saying this is your Thursday workout. It’s saying this is your workout 47 hours from your last workout, this is 56 hours from your last workout etc.
Whoever said it in here but it does seem every time you open the app it’s ready to generate a workout now recommendation which isn’t a bad thing.
For those of you getting what seems like excessive amounts of adaptations, how long has that been going on? 
Hey Eddie I’ve not used a training plan for a while but there were a lot of adaptions when I did even a few months back. And strange adaptions too that didnt always seem to make sense, like making things easier PLs when it just didnt seem necessary. It was part of the reason I stopped using the plans, I was never really sure whether I was coming or going!
1 Like
Possibly related - mine is checking every time you open the calendar or home page in both android and win apps. Don’t often get adaptions but it’s a lot of checks.
It’s also moved this rest week Z2s in the 2.0 range to 3.x which is only a bit bellow my current level. I used an alternative to head back to a rest range. It then adapted today’s (which I moved to tomorrow as my front has a flat) back up to 3.3.
1 Like
Months? There’s a previous thread about it, but sadly I don’t really remember when it started. I feel like it was close to when Zwift integration was released, because I felt somewhat coerced into clicking the “always accept adaptations” checkbox at the time. I always accept adaptations, so I kind of grumbled to myself and moved on with my life.
1 Like