Hey guys, long time lurker… so hope that its alright to ask some questions.
I really need help with some quirks and questions regarding what to get, and what to expect.
Long story short: I have realised that I really really love a good latte. I want to make them at home instead of paying €6 for one in town, that I will finish in 3min.
Budget: €1200 ish for everything? I have found a Eureka Mignon Specialita on sale here in Sweden now, almost 25% off, so thats the only thing I have decided on.
So, what I really struggle with is what machine to get…
I have watched Whole Latte Love and James Hoffman religiously on YouTube, but I still dont know what machine to get, because I dont know how my needs translate into a machine.
I have looked at Rancilio Silvia E v6, Lelit Glenda PL41+ Professional PID and then finally also Gaggia Classic Pro.
So, what are my needs?:
I just want a good espresso that is easy to make in the morning, now, I understand that I need to nail the calibration of the beans and that, but once that is done, my wish is to turn it on, grind the beans, then make an espresso and then froth the milk for my latte.
For me its important that I can focus on making a good coffee, rather than wondering how its gonna turn out, maybe call this stability?
I am a Mac guy, I dont want a coffee machine that is equivalent of a PC…
And from what I understand, its very much still a manual process, and even when I have nailed the grind, water temp, machine etc, I still have to keep track of extraction amount and manually stop the espresso flow once its reached?
Would be so grateful for some help in this jungle!
Out of those three machines you have listed, I’d go with the Lelit since it has a PID. You mentioned that you want to make good espresso without much fuss in the morning. In my opinion, all your listed machines are capable of that (though the Gaggia has a separate “OPV mod” you can/should do to vastly improve the extraction).
I don’t have any personal experience with the other two, but have previously used a Silvia for about 7 years. Since the Silvia and Gaggia don’t have a PID for temperature control of the boiler, you’ll need to perform a routine or process to get the desired water temperature for brewing your espresso. Example of these steps are flicking on/off the brew button or steam button for a certain amount of time (all done without the coffee and portafilter installed). The objective is to manipulate the heating elements to get the boiler to a certain temperature. Once you nail this routine down over time, it’s not a big deal, but it’s definitely something to keep in mind and potentially another variable. With that said, you can install PIDs to these machines (common and relatively straightforward mod), but you’ll need to spend more for it.
You’re right that it’s very much still a manual process. You’ve nailed down some of these variables already including grind size (and adjusting as the beans age), water temp, extraction time, extraction yield (how much coffee you put in vs. how much out), etc. Having a small scale and a timer will be handy for the latter two variables.
The Decent espresso machine paired with a smart scale (e.g., Acaia Lunar) via Bluetooth would introduce some automation in terms of having the extraction stop whenever a defined weight is reached. However, you will still need to dial in the grind size, have proper puck prep, etc. This setup isn’t cheap, but just wanted to mention it as there is some ease introduced.
So the last thing I have been thinking about then is the whole dual boiler thing. Now, I know those machines are crazy expensive, but how big of an issue is it really compared to a single one?
Like if we compare the Lelit Diana without PID, vs Lelit Glenda PL41+ Professional PID, does the Glenda provide “easier/better” espresso, but since its single boiler I have to wait until I can steam the milk?
Are there any other differences that one should be aware of?
So looking at your comment, getting the following will get me quite far?
So that totalt to around 1,500 USD here in Sweden. Are there any things that I could get to get the price down a bit? Or does that immediately equal going down in quality quite a lot?
Thanks again!
Edit:
Looking around bit more I found a review by James Hoffman on the Lelit Anna PL41, its quite a lot cheaper, but what am I really losing by going from the Glenda with PID to the Anna?
From what I can gather, its better to spend a little more cash on the grinder, than the machine? So instead of going for a cheaper grinder, I could maybe save some cash by going to the Anna instead of the Glenda?
on these small home machine you really need pid if you want any temperature stability for reproducible shots, upgrading my silvia with a pid made a big difference but of course these small machines still can’t compete with larger pidless prosumer machines
I am partial to the rancilio because I used to have one. It’s a great machine and if you clean it and take care of it properly it will last a very long time. The no pid is a pain in the butt, but remember that pid just started to come down to affordable machines the last few years.
You will absolutely do great shots with the Silvia and you will be able to sell very quickly if you decide to upgrade in a few years. You can also do the pid upgrade if you want to.
In any case. The grinder is what really going to make the difference at this price range, and you have chosen a great grinder.
I would skip the kit tho.
Get a open porta filter, a precision basket and a distribution tool instead of s tamper. Get a 18 to 22 basket. ISM is a good brand.
You can get a usable milk jug on ikea for cheap.
Don’t try to get all the things now. Pace you self and put most of the money on the machine and grinder. Even the scale i would skip and get a cheap one from Amazon…
Thanks for the reply, and you are probably right. Its a jungle with the machines and it seems like in this coffee segment a lot of the features might be a bit overkill, just like most cycling threads here on TrainerRoad
So, looking at that machine, combined with the grinder I picked, I can come under 1000USD for both, which would be lovely.
And I am guessing that the only thing I need to keep in mind since I am making mostly milk drinks, is that I need the boiler to come up to temp after making the espresso, before I can steam the milk right?
‘Spending more on the grinder improves your coffee, spending more on your machine improves your workflow.’
Whatever you go for, just be prepared for quite a learning curve before you can be consistent. I view it more of a hobby that has the bonus of coffee to drink than a sensible way to make coffee
With single boilers the machine can do one thing at the time. So they divide things in two modes…one for espresso and one for steam.
Your workflow will usually start with warming the machine for espresso. On entry level machines this warmup will take about 20 minutes. Once ready your do the espresso. Once done you press whatever button you machine will have to heat the water to steam. On the rancilio from espresso to steam takes about two minutes. Most machines take about the same. Once you do your steam, if you want to do espresso again you will need to cool down the machine. And this is where the single boilers show their weakness. You can’t really do back to back milk based drinks quick. It takes a very long time to warm and cool down
If your heart is set to lelit then do it. You should be happy with whatever machine you get!
Makes sense, and after watching another two hours of YouTube its a lot more clear now on the workflow! And like @stevious said above, seem to be more about workflow between machines.
It is a e61 group set… So its very common and well known
Also it can be connected directly to a water system (like a fridge with water dispenser). So if that’s something you can use, then it’s probably worth it
But as everything used, you might get a lemon or something poorly maintained.
If you are good with fixing things, then go for it.
I know a guy who gambled onna used giaggia and he had to fix and clean a lot. He actually enjoyed the process. I would have certainly not enjoyed it as much as he did. He now has a very capable machine form much cheaper than new (including parts to fix)
there are so many guides on how to service e61 machines and spare parts are ubiquitous besides these italian machines are build to last, so usually little to break except some seals and maybe a need to decalcify or replace, screens, pump
I went and had a look at the Quick Mill Milano I found second hand, and it was in amazing shape! Newly serviced with receipt with new pump and other things, so it was practically a new machine.
Of course this is TOTALLY overkill for me as a first machine, but I managed to pay 600USD for it (rich guy who just needed to get rid of it, the service on the machine on the receipt he gave me for that was 400USD…)
Now I just need to get a grinder and learn how to use it… Feels like I have gotten an S-Works bike without even owning a pair of shoes… I almost feel bad considering how new I am to this, but its gonna be fun!
Can‘t really help you with another brewing method, as Aeropress is my go to (doing french press and othe pour overs occasionally). But I can whole heartedly endorse the 1zpresso JX! Amazing grinder for the price. Quite heavy though due to a sturdy build, if that matters for travelling.
If I want to buy this type / size of machine or slightly smaller) to allow me to easily / simply make espresso coffee and also steam milk, do I have any sensibly priced UK purchase options?
Was A LOT harder than I thought to get a good espresso. Finally managed to get 18g coffee to 36g yield at around 28 seconds. This made a really really nice espresso (from what I can tell so far), and the latte tasted really good!
Happy so far, also booked a barista course in the end of January
Total spend for this setup was €1500, and thats with all accessories, some coffee, all cleaning products that I need etc.
This was where having adding a PID on my Gaggia helped me the most. It allowed me to see what was going on with temperature as I was doing different things. Going from pulling a shot to steaming some milk was fine but it took a bit to stabilize again after that so I could pull the next shot.
Now with a double boiler, even though I have a PID I don’t really use it. The machine is ready once it’s warmed up and that’s about it. If I want to steam milk while I pull a shot I can, though I’m not really in that big of a hurry. And once I’ve done whatever I’m doing it’s ready to go again, before I am.
I thought that would be really handy when having company over and entertaining, but that hasn’t really come up very often in the last year or so!
I almost feel bad considering how new I am to this, but its gonna be fun!
