Yes, I posted above the residual prompts for the model as well as the PDC.
Sorry, I missed that. It doesnāt look updated from what I see and youāve got some areas where a max effort is needed.
I was involved in development of TIS in WKO5, more or less as Andyās involvement ended in the project. There is an anaerobic component to all efforts above FTP due to the nature of FTP and metabolic regulation thereafter. The red/blue chart is a very gross simplification (showing you over and under FTP) that does not reflect how TIS scores are actually calculated.
Both effective an ineffective vo2max sessions can hit an anaerobic 10. Endurance training is anaerobic training in a lot of ways too, even under FTP. I canāt tell you how many people Iāve trained who hit a new best 1 minute power after weeks and weeks of endurance training and no specific anaerobic training. Just accumulating time above FTP also doesnāt necessarily make for good vo2max work, youāll need to properly assess your fitness before and after a training cycle to see if there was the desired effect. And studies on 4x8s and such usually donāt look at the physiological underpinnings of vo2max to determine exactly what occurred.
If I were you, Iād also start to weight the aerobic score more heavily in considering adaptations to vo2max training, especially with regards to long term trends.
Hereās someoneās 2020 season so far. Without all the aerobic 10s, his vo2max sessions wouldnāt be nearly as effective. Thereās a 45w FTP increase in here as well, which is another way to track that the vo2max sessions are having the proper effect.
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How long does it take before VO2max work to come into effect, esp for older-ish riders?
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Depending on the age and training status, could be a little while if at all. After a certain age you canāt really develop that capacity anymore, youāre just trying to prevent its loss, and itās best to weigh any potential benefits (if there are any) against fatigue and recovery timeline.
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you didnāt train me, but similar experience here Spring 2020 with improvements in under 5 minute power.
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Same here as well. I spent 3 months doing TB HV 1/2/3 and it resulted in big improvements, among which, 5 min power.
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Iām jealous of all those aerobic 10s. I sneeze and I get an anaerobic 10 but feels like I have to do 4+ hours of focused riding to find that aerobic 10.
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I see, thanks for the insights. Unfortunately I am quite a way from getting those 10 for aerobic - even on 10+ weekly hours. One of the main reasons for my question was so I could shift some to aerobic workouts. I just canāt do both without feeling quite tired, but with less intensity I can certainly manage.
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You may be onto something thereā¦
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5+ over hereā¦ maybe I wasnāt focused enough on the 4-5 hour jobbers
Same here.
- koip (2h 30min in zone 2) gives me a 6
- Maclure (3h in zone 2) gives me a 7
- Vogelsan+3 (4h tempo) did give me a 10.
Bottom line, you really need to go long on Z2 to get that 10, unless you up the intensity. Most of the time, anything about 7 does it for me but I sometimes go into long Sunday rides to get that 10 after 4+ hour rides for benefits you only get on long rides . Coach Chad did mention, however, even 2h Z2 have workouts have their benefits, so I tend to use those as fillers for volume.
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After a certain age you canāt really develop that capacity anymore, youāre just trying to prevent its loss
Back to VO2 for a secā¦if one of the main reasons it declines with age is because HRmax declinesā¦what happens if HRmax increases with age?
Mine went up 1bpm (0.5%) this year.
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Forgive my nativity here, but how does one score a 10 on the aerobic side? Is a 10 equivalent to say 3-4 hours in Zone 2? Anyone that can explain the 10 concept to me - youāre a legend!
About the 10, see my original post for the training score from WKO5.
For Z2 to score 10, I find I have to be closer to 4 hours than 3. Flattop, 3h in Z2 gives me a 7, and Tenaya 3h 15min in Z2 gives me an 8. Lyell, maybe close enough? I havenāt tried it.
Note, thatās without touching the intensity for the workout. You can bump up the intensity a couple of percentage points if you want and still be in endurance zone.
EDIT: This video from TrainingPeaks Tim Cusik explains the Training Impact Score.
FWIW here are a few of my unicorns (Aerobic = 10 and Duration < 5 hours):
Moving times were less, the Dec 2016 ride was non-stop except for ~15 minutes of stopping at traffic lights. IFs between 0.8 and 0,87. Definitely not z2, and the two most recent scored 10 on both anaerobic and aerobic. The oldest was 7 anaerobic and 10 aerobic. 
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@empiricalcycling if you can reveal, is there any component of continuous power output vs stops, coasting, etc. in the model? Is it just related to kJ or TSS in zone/ilevel?
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curious too @SpareCycles. Last night I did some data mining and here is one of several chart āvariations on a themeā I came up with:
was already planning more rides like the ā2 Rivers - easy 90ā and some recent threads just reinforced it. There are more rides with 8+ aerobic but they also have pretty high anaerobic. This cut of data used the formula [āAerobic >=6ā and ā(Aerobic-Anaerobic) > 4ā] just because I wanted the double century in the output 
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Itās a power and PD curve based metric, so if you put out no power, you create no impact. So those things are included by default.
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