Getting over/unders done is about having your zones set correctly. If they are over/overs you’re going to have a bad time.
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Interesting, my last workout was Tunemah and after the first 12min O/U I had to lower intensity to 90% to make it. My impression in general is this:
Over Understand are challenging. I finished one today. Two approaches, 1). Mentally get ready, I Know it’s going to be tough and it will take a mental focus to grind through. 2). I keep a slightly lower cadence in the unders and use more leg strength, and then kick up to a higher cadence for the overs. That way I’m training two systems, the strength and the lungs. It gives me something to look forward to in a minute or two as a switch is always coming. When one part is working, the other is recovering (just a little bit).
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Been getting a lot of thumbs up from this thread lately so here checking things out.
Always an indication there’s a new batch of TR users when the O/U and VO2 threads start to light up. Sorry, newbs. 
Two things will help with over-unders:
O/U workouts and lots of Z2.
Good luck.
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If your ramptest result is overestimating your FTP, then overunders will be very tough. The ramp test assumes that your ftp is 75% of your Maximal Aerobic Power, which isn’t always the case. If its actually say 70% then that’s going to mean your sweetspot intervals are threshold, your threshold work is supathreshold and overunders are incompletable.
If you seem to constantly fail, I think drop your ftp a bit, or change test methods
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I’m starting to suspect this may be the case for me. Being just a couple of months into my TR career I think I want more data before making a decision.
But…
I just registered for interval.icu, and started digging into some stats. Am I right to think that this chart supports my theory? “This season” being all of 2020, I got my power meter in june.
My FTP according to ramp tests so far have been
Sep 27 - 220W / 3,33w/kg
Nov 3 - 230W / 3,48 w/kg
Dec 1 - 238W / 3,61 w/kg
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So in your case I would absolutely drop ftp. Absolutely no way should your 20m power be lower than your FTP. Personally I’m one of those who always overtests so I’ve stopped using the ramp test, and opt for Kolie Moore / just using what I get from doing 40-90 minute efforts.
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Thanks!
Also realized the intervals.icu chart is in w/kg, so edited my previous post to same metrics for FTP
Tip, you can switch it from w/kg to w if you click options 
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Failing over under workouts (when I’d previously actually liked them, in a love/hate kind of way) was my first hint that the ramp test was no longer working for me. If only
I’d taken that first hint…
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Well, he may have never tried a full 20 min all out power test…
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I have not, but I guess I should. If I decide to for this specific purpose , should I do a proper ftp protocol or just warm up and go?
I would just do the TR plan 20 min ftp test outdoors. Just write it down on masking tape on your down tube and use your lap button. If you have a buddy that is faster, get him to pace you for extra motivation!
Outdoor, in December, in Stockholm Sweden which is at @ 59 N? Nooo thank you very much 
.
Plenty of buddy’s that are faster though so got that going for me…
But thinking I should schedule one in on the trainer soonish.
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Honestly, I love, love, love over unders.
I hate, hate, hate steady state sessions like Kaweah, Lamarck, etc.
the O/U sessions are productive, and the intervals have mini “breaks” built in, which makes them more palatable.
I would agree that FTP must be set correctly to avoid the over/over phenomena. In addition, have good cooling, proper music, and proper nutrition.
For a 1.5 hr session, I’ll have three scoops of infinite custom in one bottle, and plain water in the other. This is about 400 calories taken in during the session. three fans, and cold winter air sneaking through an open window (open a crack) are key.
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I saw this thread last night and thought to myself, “Ha! I’m going to crush Pallsade tomorrow and then come back to this thread for a little ego boost.” Friends, I did not finish the workout. Second time I’ve bailed on Palisade. I did make it farther this time than last, and at a bit higher power, so I’ll take that win.
Today I’ll be combing through this thread for tips, humbled. I’ll get it next time.
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Did the same today w/ Palisade, and tried to really emphasize full abdominal breathing throughout. Tough to be sure but feasible. Tried to do some out of saddle work for the final few intervals and, man, adjusting from a lower OTS cadence to mashing in the saddle was a burner.
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Well time for me to chime in I guess. Today was the first TR workout that I’d consider that I “failed”. It was Emerson (5 x 10’) - which was actually a modification on what was prescribed in my SSB-MV1 plan. Plan said McAdie +1 and with my legs feeling how they were (not good), I said, “I don’t think so”. I thought Emerson would be a decent, slightly-less intense substitute because it’s still got the 2 minute “overs” at 105%, but is buffered by 3 min at 95% (rather than McAdie +1’s 1 min @95%, 2 min @105%). I’ve always dreaded the weekend 90 minute over-under workouts, but I’ve mostly got through them without too much modification. I think I even did McAdie without any changes, though it definitely cooked me.
Today my legs were feeling some pretty heavy leg fatigue so I was concerned going in. After the first 10’ interval, I knew I wouldn’t be able to do more at that intensity, so I backed down to 95% intensity. Unfortunately that next interval felt almost as tough as the first. So I backed down to 90% intensity. And I thought, if I can keep it dialed in here and finish, I will have at least accomplished the workout’s basic objectives. I made it through 2 of those intervals. After the fourth interval though, I knew I was done, so I just spun in zone 1 and zone 2 for the remainder of the 90 min and skipped the last interval. I am so glad Recovery Week has officially started, with that workout being in the books. Damn, over-unders are hard.
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I think most ppl have FTP set too high. Sure they are hard, but you are supposed to be able to ride at threshold for 45-60m. I’m preparing for an event in January, my workout next Tuesday is over-unders.
2 sets of 32 minutes each:
8 x 2min 95%, 2min 105%
The idea is to keep HR at or below LTHR, but will tolerate higher for last 8-5 mins of each set.
I have found sleep and nutrition the two biggest predictors of success or failure of tough workout. If I get 8 hours of sleep and get in a good breakfast of carbs, I have a high success rate. If I have to do the workout early morning and can only fuel on the bike, the ride is much harder RPE and I’m more likely to dial down intensity or backpedal.
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