Finally got my invite to AT. Pumped! Curious if only TR Workouts add to my Progress Chart? I use intervals.icu alot to see my group rides, and how “intervals” were parsed out of my ride. Unless you just do easy rideing, your always doing intervals, of different amounts and times… I love this feature of intervals.icu I would think that TR could use similar algo’s to use outdoor un scheduled rides to “adapt” the progress chart of the athelete as it pertains to Endurance, VO2 etc…
Only TR workouts are currently contributing to Progression Levels. TR has said that classifying and giving users credit for groups rides, races, solo rides, and anything without a pre-planned structure is high on their priority list. Just isn’t ready yet.
I’ve said in the past that integrating outdoor unstructured workouts into the adaptive training algorithm is a difficult problem to solve & it’s going to take a while to get that worked out. Once TR have that solved, though, they are going to have valuable IP of the first order.
Here is what TR CEO had to say about unstructured outdoor workouts & AT:
"There’s two parts to this. Structured TR outside workouts. Correct me if I’m wrong, Amber, but that works today with Garmin and we’re working with Wahoo. And then there is unstructured outside rides. The unstructured part is not going to happen with initial AT launch for everybody but we should be able to have the Garmin (well Garmin is done) and Wahoo by then. That, though, is a huge piece and we’re making good progress on it & I don’t have a timeline for when that’s going to happen.”
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Man, just went through the rabbit hole of setting up my AT only to realize that all of my outdoor workouts will basically not be recognized because i’m a Wahoo user AND if i would have kept on it the AT would not have recognized any of my outside workouts and start to adapt to a lesser intensity because of this. TR’s customer service was great in walking through this with me but basically just blew a solid hour of my time (and TR CS) working through this.
Am i the only one that sees this as they launched too early and/or should’ve said that the beta group is only open to garmin users? I can see if they needed time to ramp with other fringe brands but in the US anyway Wahoo is a solid #2 in market share to Garmin.
Well, per the announcement page, under the “Current Known Issues” section, and related support page:
Outside Workouts
- Outside Workouts Completed on Wahoo or other device or uploaded via Strava don’t count toward Progression Levels
This info and all other aspects covered in those sections have been present there for many months. This is a beta after all, and something that is part of the process of incomplete apps/services like this. If it doesn’t work, you can turn AT off and continue to train without it until they address this or any other issues that prevent your use as desired.
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Well, who knows what the development progression of Wahoo outdoor workouts was/is. Could be the team thought they were on the verge of completing that feature months ago. Sometimes that be how SW dev go.
There a few (justifiably vocal) users that have some real problems on this forum. There are hundreds in the beta…so I presume a great many are satisfied. So AT has served some users well, at least.
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I’m sure its way more complicated than it seems and I bet there is some blocking going on at wahoo considering their connection with sufferfest. I don’t mean to be a whiner and appreciate everything that the TR team is doing. The time yesterday with TR CS was great and responsive and they know their stuff. I eventually had to disable AT…not a big deal.
I did see the Garmin integration note but seems like they should have clearly made the invitation open to garmin users only especially launching over the summer when training outdoors is the norm.
At this point i almost trust the Strava fitness/freshness (which people on this forum widely consider a joke) more than what AT was telling me.
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Apples / Oranges (Fit/Fresh vs Adaptive Training)
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The Strava F/F scale is most closely related to the TR Training Stress page. Strava have improved the basic use of that by at least including the relevant FTP with the time scale vs their terrible method that never considered it (the aspect that was widely criticized and rightly so, IMO). But that improved TSS info is somewhat limited use without consideration of a related training plan, even though it shows a tad more info than the TR version. Strava doesn’t really do anything more with that info than TR does.
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As to Adaptive Training, it is centered around a training plan which Strava offers in minimal ways for subscribers. TR towers over the Strava training plan options in quantity and depth. Quality of plans is debatable, but TR and it’s calendar offer quite a lot even if you don’t access AT in any way. I still see the core TR plans as plenty sufficient for many riders and they are not irrelevant without AT.
Essentially, I don’t see Strava as a real competitor to TR with respect to training plans. They each have a different focus, like other app options in this area. There is plenty still to use within TR as the fully functional service without the beta AT consideration, IMO.
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I am in the same boat, found out about the lack of Wahoo outdoor support after a number of adaptations that made no sense.
I personally think that lack of Wahoo support should be a showstopper for inviting Wahoo outdoor riders to the beta, or at least make it VERY clear that major limitations apply for them.
I know… beta beta beta. Maybe I expect more from TR because normally they exceed expectations.
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Again, the Wahoo limitation is listed in the Known Issues of intro page and known issues pages (per my links above).
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What more would you expect them to do?
Focus on the first part:
I guess. But I would expect complaints by anyone who may have Garmin stuff (old or new) that they haven’t used recently, or just acquired. Can’t please everyone.
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Perfect handling for me would have been:
- Think long and hard if I am the right beta user; they know my equipment and outdoor preference
- Make it VERY clear that Adaptive Training ONLY works with indoor workouts (for Wahoo users such as myself)
This is my feedback, take it for what it is.
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Hiding the lack of wahoo support in a “know issues” dropdown or FAQ page when the market share for a head unit is a solid #2 (maybe more for this demo) is a little cagey. When the invitation to beta test came out it should’ve been in bold “for Garmin users only” and/or as you are trying to wade through with AT not adapting, have a devise sniffer(not tough) and appropriate warning that “hey, this outdoor workout does not count towards your AT, but we are working on it”.
Again, not trying to be over critical but this was a bit of a disappointment for such a lauded launch.
Chad, yes agree (and perhaps misspoke) on the strava comparison and especially agree on their training plans (basic on a good day) but my point was that their F/F feature can help guide workout types depending on fatigue, and really compared to TR’s TSS page i like it a bit more for its simplicity (but this could be a familiarity thing)
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Similar feelings here, hope TR is doing something with my data and feedback.
Garmin user and after joining AT beta my first TR outside workout was my last. Went back to doing things the TrainingPeaks way because the entire outside experience is sub-par by comparison. TrainingPeaks is syncing workouts to TrainerRoad, but TR does not support outside custom workouts. TR support was cheerful but required repeatedly asking very specific questions to get answers, so I rate that sub-par too. Right now AT is a better fit if most of your workouts are on the trainer. Feedback left on beta thread.
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