In my head I also lose time sitting up for defects/bends and traffic too often. Especially like this.
I guess it’s a confidence thing I was going about 20-30s faster last year on our club sporting 10 until I nearly had a head on and went over the handlebars in avoiding it.
I’ve saw on the less technical courses this year I am doing far better and getting more power out sustainably.
It looks like you’re slid really far forward and smashed up in the front up causing your head to be much higher than ideal.
I’m a wimp too in descents so I totally get that. I find that either seeing where I’m going or having the course map up on my dumpster helps a great deal
Hey Greg, I’m not certain of the exact aero properties at play, but am relaying what Jim @ ERO told me when I tested with him a few years ago.
I think it is not that that the shape of the tail doesn’t matter, but that the position allows simply for a different shaped tail (if that makes sense). When the head is below the shoulders, a shorter tail allows for a more even airflow over the back as opposed to a longer tail. Intuitively, that seems to make sense…but there are a lot of things about aerodynamics when intuition proves to be wrong!
Improved my previous pb by 4min 46s with 10 watts less by switching gravel bike to tt bike + skinsuit.
I seem to have decent power in tt position with 165mm cranks but not sure about my cda. On easier rides Mywindsock usually estimates me at 0.27-0.28. This effort was 0.255.
I’ve tried different pad positions and heigh to get my head lower while maintaining visibility but maybe I just need more practice.
i have a similar issue, a couple of years ago i hit a pothole and had a nasty crash and have never really gotten over it. This really effects my TT position because i like to be able to see all of the road all of the time and so whilst i can hold a nice looking position on the turbo, in the real world i’m forever sticking my head above the parapet and then ducking back down.
out of interest, how much time do you spend riding your TT bike on the road outside of events? i’ve been trying to fit in at least one ride outside a week and this has helped with my handling whilst on the aero bars.
also whilst not based on any personal experience, i’ve read (probably further up this thread) about the high hands posistion being less stable. Maybe some flatter tri bars could help to give a bit more confidence in handling
I spend quite a bit on my TT bike outdoors at this time of year. At least the club TT and maybe 1 or 2 open events. I’ll sometimes take the TT bike out for a 2-3 hour training session.
You could be right about the stability of the hands high and that has probably got in my head too. The low hands probably were more aggressive downhill. From when I had low hands though I am significantly faster even accounting for 20-30 secs I am losing on downhills and bends etc. The low hand position put too much strain on my wrist/hand/ulnar nerve and I could end up with my whole arm going numb on a rough course. I might try something in between though
40cm to 38cm will have no effect. I run a 30cm base bar (3T Brezza II Nano LTD). 30cm is quite narrow so have to be confident riding that set up.
Would suggest if you are going to the horns regularly, you should probably stay with 40cm so you have a nice stable platform to come off the extensions into and feel fully in control of the bike.
I have been pretty impressed with aerocoach in the UK - they did, and still do a lot of aero testing for individuals on velodromes and in wind tunnels. They have a site where they share testing data on stuff like drinks bottles, wheel testing, tyre testing, etc. Anyways, here’s a video where they talk about the Bambino and other helmets (about 3 mins into the vid). The conclusion they have come to (and I can’t agree or disagree) is that the Bambino is not a good helmet for most folks. Its frustrating; there’s good info in the video, but not enough to really help come to conclusions. Except for; it appears to be different for different people!
@HLaB - I have just looked at your pics again, and a few things strike me.
Your elbow pads look… awful, sorry. There is barely any side to side location and no front-rear. No wonder you feel precarious on downhills. I would really recommend something like this (or the cheaper plastic one). I am sure you will feel a lot more stable/secure, hence able to steer/control better: CORE:cupCORE:pad | coretriathlonCOREtriathlon.com
I definitely agree with what @DarthShivious says. Those base bars are already very aero, reducing further will give you the square root of FA.
I think your saddle is too high. The 3rd pic is blurry, but your leg is very straight. If this means you rock your hips/reach with your toes at the bottom, its not going to help. In the 4th pic, @JT_34 is right, you are too crunched - but I think this is because you have come right forward on the saddle (possibly because its too high!!) and hence your shoulders are too far over your elbows, hence you can’t sag your head down.
@rawjunk - the biggest positional thing I think you could do is learn to turtle and sag. In the front-on shot particularly, your head is way above your shoulders.
I think it may be covered up-thread somewhere, but you’re looking for an elbow position that allows you to totally relax your chest muscles and allows your shoulder-blades to move inwards/together. You can practice this when off the bike/standing up by pulling your shoulders right back and (if you’re flexible) seeing if you can get your shoulder-blades to touch in the middle of your back.
On the bike, you’re looking for the same thing, but with much less muscle involved ('cause gravity is helping you). And then see if you can press your chin between your thumbs. Seriously.
This should all have the effect of moving your head down a lot, and rotating it forward to improve your view and also close up a bit between the back of your helmet and your back, although with a road helmet this is always going to be a gap.
They are cheap arm rests stolen of a pair of cheap clip ons. They were only supposed to be short term to see if the position was more comfortable on my wrist (it is) I really meant to change them but got to comfortable with them. This post has reignited that desire, thanks.
I think the saddle is the right height. Its been dropped by a couple of fits and it feels spot on and there absolutely no rocking.
This is my 10pb a fortnight before the only change is the lid and my larger Garmin it seems to have me marginally back in the seat and less over the computer
That is probably right….but for the right people w/ the right position, it is a fast helmet.
But finding out if you are that “right” person can be hard (and $$$). Plenty of other helmets to choose from that ar safer choices if you can’t do testing.
@kevistraining tbh, lowering my saddle is something I’m not 100% sure I’ll ever get used to. I was brought up on Lemond, and the principle that you raise your saddle as far as possible. 20 years of that is hard to unwind. After a year, I still get on my bike and think “woah, that’s too low! People will think I look daft!” but after 5 mins pedalling the feeling goes away. I’m still a bit self-conscious of it when riding with others.
My new position was set by working with a bike fitter, and all the evidence tells me its right. But God knows if it will ever feel natural!
Does anybody have some advice on purchasing clip on TT bars for a road bike that will be UCI legal? I have looked up the regulations in terms of 75cm length from the vertical line with the bottom bracket etc . I am just wondering if there are any good brands/models that others would recommend in a similar situation?
I have a few individual time trials coming up as part of a teams road racing series, and don’t have a TT bike nor the funds to purchase one, but would love to add a little more aerodynamic gain by fitting some TT bars for these particular events.
Maybe I’ll try foam rolling and scapular pushups before next ride.
