TrainerRoad’s ramp test estimates Max Aerobic Power [MAP] (best one minute power from the ramp) and takes 75% of that estimate as the rider’s FTP. I’m one of those riders that consistently has an FTP that’s more like 70% of my ramp-based MAP so my FTP is generally set a little high & I’m constantly futzing around with it.
Recently I did an AC/HA test, TR ramp test, & some regular hour long efforts. As has often been the case, my hour efforts were 6% to 8% less than MAP-based FTP results.
I created a hybrid ramp test based on Hunter Allen’s recommended 20 minute FTP test protocol. At the end of this post (if I remember!) you’ll be able to review the Hunter Allen protocol. Instead of a 20 minute constant power as the test I spliced in the TR ramp protocol.
The results of the Hybrid TrainerRoad ramp test were within a few watts of my full hour efforts. So maybe that’s a better measure than just a regular ramp test. Something to think about if you’re a rider that experiences this same sort of issue.
Anyhow, it seems certain this isn’t the first time somebody has thought to do this. But I couldn’t find anything else about it on the forum…so I thought I’d post.
Same as the standard TrainerRoad ramp test. 75% of best 1 minute power during the ramp. Best 1 minute power for the whole workout was during the 5 minute blow out…so I had to futz around with TR analytics to get best 1 minute in the ramp.
So how is this a better test? Because 75% of the final value came out closer to your best full hour power? What not just use the standard ramp test, but adjust the percentage to better fit you?
I actually do do it that way, or least I did back when I was still racing. I first started doing ramp testing in the mid 2000s after reading this article:
Stern later suggested using 72-77% of your MAP to estimate your FTP, and I found that something on the lower end of that range worked best for me. YMMV.
Edit to add: another way you can “game the system” is to alter the ramp rate. For example, if you find that 75% of your MAP seems to overestimate your actual FTP, you can reduce the ramp rate from 25 W/step to 20 W/step or even 15 W/step. You will last longer, but will fail at a lower power output, which will make things align better.
I’m on the other side of the bell curve and the ramp test can set my FTP a little too low.
That’s really interesting, did you think “if I do the 5-minute anaerobic blow out maybe that will fix the ramp over-estimates” or something else?
Will be interesting to hear if that is a repeatable result over the course of a season. I’m saying that because in WKO my FTP as % modeled vo2max will vary between 83-90%. My “bad” ramp tests are always when FTP is 88-90% of modeled vo2max.
Oh no, nothing like that. I don’t mean to represent this as an original thought. It’s totally an idea that Hunter Allen has promulgated for years. All I did was splice the first part of Hunter Allen’s test onto the TrainerRoad ramp. (I appended a summary of the protocol in my original post…that summary is Hunter Allen’s)
If you have the book ‘Training & Racing With A Power Meter’ there is some discussion of this approach & the author outlines a much more involved protocol. If pressed about it he’d probably say, ‘At least do a 5 min blowout’ before the FTP portion of the test. So that’s what I did.
I know! I’m really curious how this type of test protocol treat that cohort of riders.
No. It’s not a slick product like the TR development team would create! After the workout is done I go to the ‘personal records’ chart on the performance analytics page for the workout. Slide the cursor across the personal records chart until the line is at 1 minute…note the power number…multiply by 0.75…that’s the new FTP.
Couple of apologies about this workout ahead of time. I didn’t take the ramp test text message out. So they are a little psycho. A couple times in the middle of the workout some message telling me I’m done will pop up. Also, after I fail on the ramp I switch it to resistance mode because the ramp will just keep going higher in erg mode.
The first couple times, might be a good idea to use resistance mode for the 5 minute portion of the test…unless you’re fairly certain about what type of 5min power you can do. I always guess too high.
I am musing here…
but wondering if a real ramp would be better than a stair…
so instead of adding 6% every minute…you just keep going up…
This would probably work better on resistance mode tho…
one can set to go up to 145% of ftp…most will fail way before that…
Ramp tests have been studied, evaluated, debated, and discussed by sports scientists for a long long time. Just use TR for convenience, or pick another step size if you can articulate why, or go to 8-min or 20-min or 30-min or Kolie Moore.
I’m still of the opinion that if you are targeting triathlons (did I get that correct?), then doing a 20-min test protocol is better for a number of reasons. My last 20-min test was a month ago, into a headwind, and was almost exactly 10km which is the distance of a Super Sprint Triathlon. Learning how to pace is a valuable skill.
Yes you did…
I agree to an extent… once i work the issues of my trainer and gearing on resistance mode, then it would probably be better. But as i did last week, it is not possible. unless my ftp suddenly jumps to 285 (from 244)
v
