First thing I would do is check power source indoor and outdoor. Especially with a one sided PM you might be off… Then start asking yourself if you gave it all on the ramp test. You may have poor VO2max and great threshold
It is indeed a one sided power meter I use indoors and out. I switched to Ramp tests mid season but now I’ve achieved my goal at the first attempt. I might switch back to an 20mins test (or maybe try an 8). I don’t know how accurate Garmin VO2max is, its sitting at 62 parts after a cr@p TT, the highest its been I think after a block of interval training and pre ERG was 75 parts. Its maybe just ERG I don’t get on with
High threshold in relation to vo2 max (so typical TTer phenotype, combined with low anaerobic capacity) and your ramp test would vastly underestimate your FTP. You cannot have high FTP and poor vo2 max
It’s all relative, isn‘t it? My high explanatory skills were just no match for my great analysis.
Went from 260 to 267 today. After my first 6 weeks with trainerroad. However, 260 was determined via a ramp test with Zwift and I think they determine FTP differently than trainerroad and it was set a bit too high. I was probably more around 250-255 when I started (had to drop FTP to 250 in the first week, 255 for second and third week to complete workouts). I also lost 1kg putting me now to 4.17w/kg. This month marks my first year with cycling and I’m pretty happy where I’m at and where it’s going
Just referring to this chart - I’m endurance trained/training on MTB - does this essentially explain why I struggle at VO2max / FTP tests yet I’m happy to ride for hours at a time at 3wkg?
Depends what do yo reffer as vo2 max and FTP test. If you are thinking about ramp test and 120% of FTP then yes. High percentage of FTP in relation to your MAP power will be cause of the problem (maybe along with anaerobic capacity).
I’d love to understand your response a bit more.
Yes I struggle over 105% FTP (VO2max power) a lot. Its always been a difficult area for me although improved last year to get me to 288w/4wkg FTP. This year I’m following the same plan but FTP has dropped to 282, then 268/3.7wkg using a 20 mins test. After about 12 mins, my legs start to go and I need to “pause” for 30s regather and go again and this happened 3-4 times over the final 8 mins - I just can’t get through it and was really hoping to keep improving my FTP.
The latter FTP was set after Iowered my expectation of a negative split down to 270> 300 through the 20 mins but still “paused” twice in the final 8 mins.
To simplify things quite a lot - your FTP falls into a certain percentage of VO2 max:
So when you are operating just above FTP, let’s say 105% your FTP is getting closer to your maximal oxygen demand:
Getting closer to vo2 max causes faster fatigue. Think about certain riders like TTers - the power monster that can hold high wattage for a 40k TT but they do not have any “snap” for harder efforts on short climbs or sprints. Their FTP is probably as high as can get close to VO2 max. On the other side, you have sprinters - guys with enormous sprint but their FTP generally is on the lower side - they have the huge anaerobic capacity (so ability to work over FTP) but their FTP falls lower to VO2 max - so they will not win many TTs,
Of course, this is a generalization because there are many other factors (like mentioned anaerobic capacity, fibre composition etc). This can be analyzed better when checking the full power curve.
This sounds like a muscle endurance problem more than anything. Can be a problem with lactate’s byproducts clearing (you need a lot of Z2 riding and O/U, but mostly Z2) or not enough training over FTP. Both these things helped me a lot during this year of training. My TTE was 60 min but anything over FTP was torture. Adding a lot more Z2 (in comparison to last year) and some O/U intervals reduced the problem - and my FTP stays on similar levels to VO2 max the whole time.
Tested out this morning - 344 up from 333, +11 watts. Been hunting for 340+ for awhile, so I was pretty hyped😁
Thats all really helpful, thanks for taking the time to post all of that. With regard to the above I have similar experience. Up until November 2019 I was reverse periodised, I lost power and gained weight. We reverted to traditional base in November 19 to March 2020, moved to Z3, then sweet spot then Z5 and I achieved 4wkg in August 2020.
This year we have done the same plan, so I was surprised to see my FTP fall (although a lot of stress at work may have contributed). But as a reflection of your post above I’m now Z3/Sweetspot during the week with long Z2/3 at weekends. The first weekday intervals (just done tonight) are low cadence 60rpm Z3 for muscular endurance, the rest on Wednesday and Thursday are variations of OU’s. I’ll then be working on Z5 in July with my main events July - September.
So maybe we haven’t quite “baked all the layers of the cake” yet as I can see we are working on lactate shuttling and getting closer to FTP - I should therefore wait for my August FTP test…
My original question was basically “has the amount of endurance work I’ve done reduced my FTP” with the basic answer being yes.
re-tested today after 4.5 weeks of a lot of AeT climbs and SST work with a 2-3 Vo2 max workouts sprinkled in. Up 16w to 333…not looking forward to the next workout with the new ftp. Think all my “newbie” gains (from switching my focus to the bike from the run) are gone at this point, but hopefully I can keep some steady progress from here.
I’ve been using TR for ~3 years now, but decided to dedicate my time to cycling as my main sport/activity in 2020. I got injured, lost fitness and gained weight.
Started taking it seriously again in September and I went from 190lbs (86 kg) with a 218 FTP to 170 lbs (77kg) with a 340 FTP as of this week!
What training plan/blocks did you do? Very impressive gains 120 bump 9n 13 months… just amazing
Mar 3: 343–> June 6: 350 5.33 w/kg
Figured I’d test again before taking my mid season break.
Spent the last 3 months on extensive sweet spot work eventually getting to 3x40min @90%
Then racing was getting underway and I went into a holding and sharpening period to get me to my ironman on May 23, and 70.3 this weekend. Looking forward to 1-2 weeks of doing NOTHING.
Hi all, I am having a great time training and love the forum and the Podcasts as well.
Here’s my FTP history:
07-Jun-2021: 263, still going up! 6% Increase, Awesome! I will always take that!
16.01.2021: 164 (2.1 W/kg)
06.02.2021: 182 (2.4 W/kg)
20.03.2021: 185 (2.5 W/kg)
13.04.2021: 198 (2.6 W/kg)
11.05.2021: 205 (2.7 W/kg)
09.06.2021: 212 (2.8W/kg)
Happy with today’s result - it represents a nearly 15% increase over 12 weeks. Small but steady progress… I doubt I will achieve 3W/kg by August (my original goal) because I’m now going to focus on endurance.
This is all very encouraging. I just completed ssmv1. I came i with estimated FTP of 249, frome about 4 months of zwifting. My first ramp on my first day of tr, came in at 251. 6 weeks later, on monday i did the ramp again and came out with a 267. I was pretty stoked. Now im looking forward to the next test in 6 weeks after ssmv2.
Awesome job, what were you doing?
Started Trainerroad Last November (Weight has hovered around 80kg)
- Initial FTP: 275w (20min @300w, 3.4w/kg)
- Early January 2021: 320w (ramp test, 4w/kg)
- Late February: 330 (ramp test, 4.1w/kg)
- Late March-now: 350 (20min @374w, 4.4w/kg: outside)
I’ve realized that I’m proportionally better at efforts 20min and under and as such my ramp test FTP was definitely an overestimation. If I did a ramp test now I feel like I could end up with an FTP around 375 (4.7w/kg) but there is no chance I could hold that for an hour.
I’ve recently set a bunch of new shorter power PRs including 680w (8.5w/kg) and 470w (5.9w/kg) for 1 and 5 minutes respectively. I plan to complete another 20 minute test soon and I hope to average around 385w.
I’m super stoked about my progress so far as I’ve nearly doubled my FTP since starting cycling April 2020, next goal is 500w for 5 minutes!