Also, if you are constrained by hours, the only way to get more training load would be to increase intensity.
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I agree, I’m just saying I don’t see the point in doing that by increasing Z2 intensity. But, as others have said, everyone is different.
I find it hard to do Z2 on the trainer longer than 90 minutes. I get mentally bored even with YouTube and music. Would any tips on how to improve my mental approach?
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Personally, 2-3 hours is my max indoors for a single session. It’s really just like anything else torturous though, distractions and comfort techniques. Get out of the saddle a lot. Take breaks if you need to. Good bibs. Good saddle. Strong fan. Rocker plate. A movie you can get engrossed in. For many, it’s an excuse to eat junk. Some people play simple video games. Etc.
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YouTube videos are generally 8-20 minutes, so they make me more aware of how many I’ve watched and am more likely to feel the length of time I’ve been on the trainer. Watching a movie or binge watching longer format TV (45+ min episodes) makes it go by faster. Could watch a ball game or bike race too.
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From my perspective, PL’s are there primarily to help the TR system suggest appropriate workouts based on past results. That said, I’m not a fan of the TR Z2 or Z3 workout options and chose to roll my own for those type of workouts. I played with “faking out” the system a couple times to push my Endurance PL’s up a bit (got sick of seeing them at 1), but then it just suggests a higher level workout that I’m still not a fan of.
I’d argue they are all way too easy and most of them just look like arbitrary small jumps in power up and down (I guess to try to make it more interesting?). I don’t need/want a long Z2 workout broken into 10 minute interval blocks to create interest (but I can appreciate that others like that). I’m also not saying I don’t ever do a TR Z2 workout, but it’s typically just a short one for a recovery day, not what I’d consider proper Z2 work.
This forum is going to meltdown when people realise their unstructured rides do feck all for their progression levels!
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I’m expecting little or nothing from unstructured rides. Would be nice to (hopefully) get some credit for structured or semi-structured rides where they don’t match up well to a TR workout and I can’t be bothered to create a custom workout to get a PL for them. E.g. In summer I will often do a loop that takes in 4-6 hills in fairly quick succession, each of which takes about 3-6 minutes to get up, so I’ll do VO2 efforts up the hills and recover on the descents and short flats before the next one. Much more fun and motivating than picking one hill and going repeatedly up and down it which is pretty much what I need to do to accurately complete an outdoor TR VO2 workout. Especially as I sometimes do it with one or more friends for extra motivation. It’s good quality training as I’m accumulating 20-30 minutes at VO2, would be nice to get a PL from it so that as and when I need to jump back into doing an indoor TR workout because of weather or time limitations, there is less guesswork involved in picking the right one.
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Ah, like you I’d expect some progression from summer hilly club spins, but expecting limited enough due to the overall nature of them. Even if they are hard/ fatiguing.
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The problem with the hilly club rides is unless you’re one of the strongest climbers you often end up using descents and flats to chase back on instead of getting recovery, which then blunts the quality of the VO2 work. I try to either choose my ride companions carefully or park the ego and stick to my own workout, not always successfully!
They’ve been telling us this for 3 years now. I sure hope the message has sunk in.
I also think it’s an inherent problem with the PL system. 3 years of work to do something we’ve been told won’t have much impact on PLs.
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For unstructured rides. I think it will do more for outside workouts where it’s current user confirmation of compliance. My outdoor rides are mainly unstructured.
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I expect little from unstructured rides but hoping for better understanding / PL estimation from outdoor workouts bought from different source (pre-made plan from TP).
Here’s example workout:
Note the VO2Max PL 9.6. This is mostly due recovery part being at 75% of FTP. In reality, I do them much lower to be ready for actual work. Lets say, at 40%, in which case PL is actually 8.6.
Of course, I can modify those workouts in TP to reflect how I actually do them but this is tedious overhead.
There is similar situation with TR own VO2max workouts. If we do VO2max workouts at highest possible power, ignoring prescribed target, it might be totally different PL.
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Yes. This will be a very nice improvement. I did a ride last week that was mostly Tempo, but had a few Anaerobic sprints. It gave me a rating of SweetSpot 17.9 
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It completely changed my mind using rollers. Also, I wasn’t a huge Zwfit fan, but with rollers and robopacers, it’s completely doable a 2-hour endurance pace at around 2.2/2.7w/kg. You’re riding effectively, and not just turning the pedals.
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You must not be a gamer😀. Look for game walkthrough videos on YouTube .You’ll find plenty of videos lasting 20-25 hours or even longer.
Look for RPG style games, like BG3 and Cyberpunk, and you’ll see dozen of these videos.
I think this is a crux for me for WLV2.
One example would be where you do a regular weekly ride of say 150-200TSS on a Sunday and then Plan Builder could integrate that to say you should therefore structure your workouts throughout the week on Tues VO2/ Thursday SS/ Friday TH, or something along those lines anyway. Or, it’ll see a big outside ride and then reschedule/restructure the following day/week as necessary. Although I’m not sure it’ll be part of it.
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Different strokes for different folks.
Anything that makes the time fly by works.
For me, that’s exactly the reason I want PLs to reflect the effects of outdoor training. Races, group rides and rides where I am riding for fun but with some improvised structure (hold power relatively steady for long periods or do some intervals) is contributing to my fitness. My training plan should ideally recognize and adjust to that.
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Unstructured rides with WLV2 are unlikely going to do anything for the progression of PLs that are the focus of a current plan. I think that is a fair assumption.
However, I would hope that it would prevent the PLs from dipping/degrading so low between phases of the season while they aren’t the focus. So, hopefully at least a little bit of maintenance credit. For example, at present, I have reached the Build phase and my Threshold, VO2, Anaerobic and Sprint PLs are all hovering at ~1, which is lower than if I was new to TR and/or turned AT off. This means that AT initially loads me up with joke VO2 and Threshold workouts, which I have to adjust upwards. Some credit from unstructured group rides should reduce this disparity.
There will also be occasional examples where you go do capacitive efforts in the Threshold or SS range that might adjust your PLs, but probably more likely via AI FTP.
Long alpine climbs should keep a floor under your Tempo & SS levels.
I think as other people have previously mentioned, Endurance credit should be a lot better.
I’m also hoping it will have a positive impact via upgraded secondary progression levels.