It may be a great plan I just feel
The ecosystem is getting quite muddled. I honestly wouldn’t mind if plan names disappeared entirely and the app suggested a bespoke plan for me based on availability everyday and my goals and was also educational in terms of explaining what is realistic in terms of improvement by following the options presented. That seems like the way the app could really move on and give all athletes the best chance of the result they are seeking
The interesting thing is that TR still hasn’t cracked the autoregulation issue. By that I mean, people say the old plans burned them out. Anywhere along the way, the athlete could have dropped some hard workouts, take extra rest days, done less group rides, or took more frequent rest weeks. But that feels like failure to people so they forge on into burnout.
We we read “8 minute threshold intervals” kill me, the experienced here know that their FTP is overstated because an 8 minute ftp interval should be fairly easy. But athletes forge on into burnout because lowering an FTP ever is a failure.
Or, they pick a plan plus do weight lifting, running, rowing, and climbing at the gym but post that they burned out on a TR plan…
Maybe some day, TR will be able to tap into smart watch data and HRV or whatever else and then the AI will be able to have a “chat” with the athlete: “Hey, it looks like you are tired. We noticed that you are doing all these other activities that aren’t accounted for in your plan… Maybe you shouldn’t lift on your rest days…”
Sure, and that concept has been mentioned and numerous times by users as well as Nate. But that is what I see as a ‘next gen’ option that takes more effort to implement vs another option.
I do agree that there is some challenge in picking between the greater number of plans that have been introduced in the last 2+ years (POL to start, with Masters the most recent addition). But at the very least I am guessing TR sees Plan Builder as the key feature here. They already added the ability to see hourly limits for each day in a plan, that is stacked onto the core of picking a volume that essentially sets a daily requirement/limit per week. It’s not laid out in the way you and others here have suggested, but it is reasonably close and in our hands right now.
I expect we will see a continued evolution applied to Plan Builder since it seems to be the essences of what many people are asking for in getting more tailored plans for each athlete and their unique use case.
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For sure. I think it does a good job of highlighting that a lot of overtraining is something else. And it demonstrates the sex difference in the studied subjects in each syndrome (heuristic: macho men train themselves into the ground, women are fragile and don’t eat enough).
I also don’t think I’ve seen a true case of overtraining in my (albeit shorter) career.
In British Columbia, masters is 40+
Edit: at least in Enduro and Cyclocross I believe.
Yeah I think it’s instructive to have a dictionary definition of overtraining. I’m fairly confident that what I experienced with TR training plans was functional overreach resulting in malaise, poor performance, bad sleep and a heavy unwillingness to continue the work. Maybe throw in some heavy self doubt and a sense that I’d finally gone ‘over the hill’.
But I was NOT overtrained, just over it.
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I can tell you… even though I see athletes in person 6 days a week, build trust, have a positive working relationship, take their feedback and make adjustments… people will still do their own thing. It is not uncommon that a short from a YouTube influencer will completely derail what you have been working on for months. That said, if we can get pretty close I am ok with being flexible. I have found that an athletes confidence and buy-in is just as important, if not more, than precisely following the plan.
I think the redlight/greenlight is an attempt at what you are getting at with the “chat.” But getting buy-in and compliance is the hard part. As a coach and probably even more so from a machine.
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This is complicated for me. The old plans burned me out. I complied 100% with them, I didn’t do outside training, I took the ftp of the ramp tests (yes even when my ftp dropped because of the training) and the AI. I finished every workout, tried to be diligent about rating my efforts. A 10 was a fail, which I did fail one rep of a workout but finished (it was the last rep) and marked it ‘all out’.
I still got very burned out. My ftp dropped, I wanted to retch when I saw another sweet spot ride. I actively hated training. I completed the whole thing, through specialty and felt not so special.
Could I have dropped my ftp independently? I think I did at one point before I dropped the platform… Does that feel good? no. Did I want to skip workouts? No, it feels like 
to do that. Did I push too hard? probably. But I have a plan, made by the smart people and ruled by AI. Who am I to say it’s too hard? Especially if I can finish it.
People will read that I burned out and not believe me straight away, I’m wrong, misinformed, lying. I have some ulterior motive, I’m lazy, or stupid. They’ll have ‘reasons’ or methods of how I could’ve done it differently. People are taking this adversarial position and then litigating the outcome.
I applaud TR for applying their empathy and creating rational solutions to what may simply be irrational problems (or they may be real!) The point is we don’t really know we just have opinions.
I’m happy with the masters thing, the changes that have been made, the platform has won me back, at least for a limited time while I delve into the great new features and changes and see how it fits with my fitness goals.
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This discussion doesn’t help with making a decision between masters or normal LV. Just about every post makes sense for choosing a plan!
It’s either masters with a added train now when fresh or LV with extra endurance, and the arguments for either make perfect sense.
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Well, when I was using Plan Builder to set this season, I ran and re-ran multiple options while checking each one at the review stage. For me, in light of my training history and despite joining the Five-Oh club next week… I started with General Base 1 Mid Vol (non-Masters version).
The new General Base 3:1 structure and other changes they made, along with the tweaks PB made per my Progression Levels made the Base phase “too easy” for what I wanted and felt I was capable of doing. I’m in the final 2 workouts of the 3 week Work phase and feeling great. I plan to continue with GB2MV thru GB3MV unchanged as long as I feel good.
My Build as set now is set for Masters, partly because I know my Saturdays get busy around that timeframe and I am more concerned of the loading in the Build phase. I will evaluate that once I get through Base and adjust if needed. But thinking about each phase independently instead of locking into Masters or not may be worth consideration.
All that to say you just have to pick something and start. It’s easy enough to make minor adjustments manually via Alternates (which I have used a few times already) or make bigger swaps in plans on the Calendar. The system is more flexible now than ever, so sweating too much to pick the “perfect” plan is likely unnecessary. Just get moving, evaluate your progress each week and be willing to tweak when necessary.
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The common thread on the forum and on the podcast when people are having fatigue/intensity issues or not hitting fitness goals is – additional non-plan volume, not actually following the workouts when doing outside workouts, and inconsistency.
Its the same thing in almost every thread/post/podcast question. “TR doesn’t work right!” then they provide more details or share their calendar and its like “Well no shit dude.”
I also think a lot of people “fail” workouts because they just can’t mentally sit in the pain cave due to inexperience with it. Disclaimer – obviously thats not the only reason.
Granted, I wasnt around before AT and as such I’m not familiar with how those plans worked. I’m speaking to the current product.
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You are still the coach. Getting an off the shelf plan or even one generated by AI still leaves the rider in charge of the process. If one is tired, then rest, take a day off. If TR gives recovery ever 5th week, and you find that you are dragging by the 5th, take one every 4th or every 3rd.
There’s no way around having to feel your way through training. If you get chronically tired then you need a rest week. If you are going into the next workout with tired legs every time, then you are probably doing too much.
I hope the masters plans work out for you. They do sound more appropriate for a lot of people. Personally, I know I can’t do 3 hard workouts per week. I end up in the fatigue hole in no time.
What are the differences between the General Base masters plans and the Polarized plans? Both have two intensity days per week.
How would you decide between those two plans?
General Base makes no attempt to keep it truly in a polarized distribution and will likely be pyramidal.
I…do NOT run. Entirely too painful to manage even a mile usually, so I have no real context here. But…for someone really in good running shape, wouldnt 15 miles only be like 1.5-2hrs?
Or, perhaps, more anecdotal evidence for the central governor theory? 
That’s not the central governor “theory”.*
*Quotes, because it is so vague/ill-founded that it doesn’t deserve to be called a theory.
I’m sticking with it lol 
Myths die hard.
Makes me feel old 
- when I hear “masters” I always think 15-20 years older than me…. Then I heard @Jonathan on the podcast saying he qualified.,
You mention 34 years old here in Australia……
I’m 44… guess I always felt young at heart 
I don’t feel so bad now reducing the intensity now and then
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