Who's over 60 y/o and using TR?

dtom – you described the vast majority of cyclists – folks that ride for recreation and socializing – whether younger or older. TrainerRoad might grow and benefit their subscriber base by offering plans for those who fit that market segment. Maybe a “Weekend Warrior” plan, or a “New to Fitness” plan. A TR marketing type could come up with a clever plan name for folks whose bodies just need more time to recover (whether young or old) or are not interested in more intensity or are just dabbing their toes into a fitness plan. The plan would be less demanding than TR’s low volume base plans, but still structured.

oldcyclist65 – you can find descriptions of a wide variety of physiological metrics by going to the garmin website, selecting the Fenix or Epix watch and clicking on a link for HRV Status. I find HRV useful as one guide for when to take a day off or reduce intensity.
Here’s an HRV synopsis: Your heart does not beat in a perfectly regular rhythm as would a metronome, and, in fact, beat-to-beat variations in your heart rate are healthy and normal and the measure of variation is HRV. Your heart is controlled by your autonomic nervous system (ANS), which is the involuntary part of your nervous system. The sympathetic branch of your ANS is active when you’re under some kind of stress. The parasympathetic branch is the more relaxed part that just hums along when you are relaxed. When the parasympathetic branch is more active, your heart rate decreases, and it beats when it gets around to it to meet the body’s needs, but not on such a strict schedule as when the sympathetic branch is in charge. In other words, HRV increases. Because of these characteristics, HRV is a great indicator of the balance between the activity of the two branches of the autonomic nervous system, and therefore it’s an indirect measurement of stress. Higher HRV means lower stress.
If my HRV (measured during sleep) becomes lower than typical, it indicates that my body is working harder to recover or working to fight off an infection, etc. Of course, there can be measurement error, so I also check resting HR, quality of sleep, and how I’m feeling before adjusting a workout.

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PopPopBresko - thanks ever so much for the information. It sounds really interesting. I’ll look further into. :+1:

I monitored HRV for two years. I was looking for a sign to warn me I needed to tone things down. My conclusion is it didnt tell me anything till it was too late. A better predictor for me was watching for a rise in my morning resting heart rate.

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I am also a big fan of Joe Friel in particular his fast after 50 book and am currently following his plans from the book.
I used TR workout creator to to replicate his recommended Aerobic Capacity & Lactate Threshold workouts (high, moderate & low dose) and apply them as his annual training periods.
I mostly do the aerobic threshold rides outdoors or use the train now endurance ride if the weather is rubbish.
I also add strength training sessions to my weekly load.
It’s working for me so far as I couldn’t face sweet spot base for another year and the polarised plans require too long on the trainer for me if the weather outdoors is not good, which living in the UK is more often than not.

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Hi, 62 been a TR user for about 4.5years and have read Friels Fast after 50 and have watched Seilers podcast regarding polarized Training*PT) have saved but not watch Attia or Hubermans view on Z2. Now, that said can we just simplifiy it and still follow a TR plan? As PT is 80/20 I was thinking we could just figure out the number of workouts in a block and adjust accordingly TR AT will still give you credit for the energy system workout you select. And with outdoor workouts you can also plug in a TR workout as well. I’m following a mid volume plan and right now it has 3 hiit workouts per week but I don’t always do them. Because the other elephant in the room is longevity and aging and Sinclair says that HIIT is good. I typically get thru the VO2 workouts okay but I usually get crushed at the end of a hard threshold sets Mary Austin first two sets boom feeling like I can hang with Podgacar then on the last set pow the wheels come off and I struggle if you look a the TR power picture its ugly but I push and drop as best I can to finish the set and the AI AT still gave me some credit??? What do you guys and gals think… I hear ya all on PT and am thinking about modifying a TR block as mentioned but I still see success following Coach Chad’s and AI’s plan???

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I agree and buy into Attia on train now for what you want to be able to do at 80… But these fitness ideas has been around for quite some time it’s just now that we are looking into longevity and aging learning new things aka Sinclair. Back in the day if you followed American baseball there was a guy named Nomar Garciapara and he had a personal trainer named Mark Verstegen who wrote several books on Core Performance and he talked about mobility and movement prep…fast forward to the TRX and Rip Trainer all follow the same basic principals…Attia and especially Sinclair have actually put some more studies and behind it and have taken it to the next level… it’s all us old guys paying attention as we cans see that flicker of a light at the end of the perverbial tunnel :sweat_smile:

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I just watched a recent long talk that Seiler on the model for endurance training. Towards a shared mental model of the endurance training process - YouTube. The bulk of it doesn’t have any direct applicability to 60+ athletes, but he commented (at 1:04:30) that an athlete over 60 (1) doesn’t need to do a lot of intervals, (2) should make their exercise regimen fun and enjoyable, and (3) should be in the strength room twice a week as we’re losing lots of muscle mass after 60. More generally, he said earlier (not specific to over 60) that if you’re only training 3 days a week, you can probably do whatever you want to with 4 days to recover.

My training now focuses on (1) at least two days of Zone 2 endurance work of 60 to 90 minutes inside (or 1.5 to 2 hours outside); (2) 2 days of strength sessions (45 min to 1 hour each). In addition, I’ve added more walks, which don’t get as much respect as they deserve for the benefits. I’m still looking for a good morning stretch or light yoga routine I can do daily after my morning coffee. And I’m trying to see what all the fuss is about pickleball.

I think it helps to have specific goal events, rather than just be process oriented. I have some cycling events (mostly gravel races) on my calendar for 2023, and I will likely try to build in more SS/Tempo work as those dates get closer. TR is a good program, but the training plans are really designed around the minimum effective dose philosophy for a time-crunched cyclist.

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Agree here with the morning walks. Early exposure to sunlight,even on cloudy days and postponement of food and coffee for an hr are recommended by Huberman. My wife and I
do a morning walk that involves climbing a 400 ft hill. Overall abt an hr and 3 miles. Right now I’m diving into 30 min SS and sprint workouts immediately after the walk. Starting in December, it will be 4 days of Zone 2 and one of VO2 max. 3 months of this then some threshold work. Age 68, 70 kg and FTP still less than 3 watts/kg

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I concur with you regarding having goal events. For me that has always worked to get me and keep me focused training needed for accomplishing the goal. I guess what you do at 60+ is personal based on individual motivations and injuries etc. The longevity guys talk about muscle mass etc but Sinclair says that its not about bulk as you dont see centenarian’s looking like Arnold, they are all lean… (I am paraphrasing). So it’s always a challenge to not overdo it and just have a healthy routine. Sinclair talks about internment fasting as well but you can’t be fasting b4 HIIT training or a super LSD ride… It took me a minute to figure it out as I was following Benardot “Advanced Sports Nutrition” he was saying start your morning with orange juice while on the other hand Attia was saying dont drink OJ as it is a super sugar rush to the system…Both have different objectives performance vs longevity…I suspect there is a middle ground but i wonder if there is any scientic studies on the subject. I suspect most people havent got the memo that 60 is the new 40 :man_facepalming: :grin:

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You mentioned gravel I see gravel in my future at some point. It looks like fun I just have to make the mental and financial leap to a third bike to purchase and maintain… Maybe in 2024 or late 2023… I’m booked with road and XCM until Oct 2023

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I find the minimum effective dose approach on low volume provides the foundation of reallly well training, with ongoing adaptation, but also allows lots of time for longer rides and various other riding. I usually ride 5-6 days a week, but on three TR workouts that low volume provides. Lots of freedom along with structure and adaptive training seems just about perfect.

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you could put gravel tires on a road bike, if you have clearance. Almost as good a solution, except perhaps for the low gears for steep hils.

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thanks for the reply. I have a Tarmac SL 6 not sure what the clearance is I’m running Conti GPs 25mm but it’s worth a look. Talking to friend today about how I have been hyper obessed with gravel and they commented similar to you one bike with two options. Requiring only a change in tires and correct gearing road can do gravel and visa versa but neither road nor gravel can do MTBing. So if you like to MTB then that is a must have bike…all spending is on hold for the moment :upside_down_face:

SL6 you are looking at maybe a 30c tire to keep minimum of 4mm clearance between tire and frame. The usual tight spot is at the chainstays near bottom bracket.

I’ve got an SL7 and no problem with 32c tires that on wider gravel wheels measure out to 34-35mm. I’ve used both Pirelli Cinturato Velo TLR in 32c (measures out to 34mm) and Specialized Roubaix Pro 2Bliss 30/32c (measures out to 35-36mm). Measured width on Roval Terra gravel wheels with 25mm internal width. The easy gravel out here is mostly dirt roads with some rocks.

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Or he could get a gravel bike and put road tires on it. I’m buying a separate set of wheels and road tires for my gravel bike (Giant Revolt Advanced Pro 0) and plan to use it as my all-in-one for gravel and road and sell my Trek road bike, which has rim brakes on carbon wheels. I no longer feel safe with the stopping (really, only slowing) power of the road bike.

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Like @DavidWms i ride a Giant Revolt Pro 0. I did change the derailer and cassette to run 10-36 vs the 10-33 it came with. 1-1 ratio on some climbs was too much grinding for my fun meter. I do have two wheel sets for it. The original carbons with semi-slicks for road and light gravel and a set of Spinergy wheels with light knobs for all gravel/single track and road tradition. Works well for me since I only ride roads when the gravel is wet or frozen and to transition to other gravel.

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Sorry for the late reply to this, I’m catching up after several months away from the bike (and forum).
I agree about the way that walking is ignored, and not just for “older athletes”. I notice that TR now imports "run"s from Garmin, and as far as I am aware takes account of the effort. Do you think it would be useful to extend this to “walk” workouts in Garmin. I have tried logging walking as a run, which works, and my wife I and walk at nearly 4mph which is hardly ambling, but it still seems like cheating to call it a “run”.

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David I’m an older rider too and have been riding since a child nearly everyday. I have Bike Disease Stage 4. Today I created an account and will start the “Train Now” product soon. I need to start ‘get rid of bikes now’ soon too as I can hardly get through the house, but that’s common in Stage 4. But in all seriousness, I’m glad to see there are some here my age. Glad to meet you and the young 'uns too.

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I always add my purposeful walks in as runs. Similar to you I do so at a good pace, and I feel while it may not be a “real” run, it is a real tho mild workout. In fact, after and during various medical events the last couple of years its been one of my few choices during recovery and I feel it helped me mitigate fitness loss pretty well.

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