What is latest on outside rides/races being included in PLs? (Unstructured)

Yes, I get that @ZackeryWeimer Its counting outside rides in PLs that have been promised for ages.

Anyway, given that, how do my recent 24hour and 12hour Time Trial racess affect my AI FTP. I suspect they are an edge case :slight_smile:

As others have said, (@jn92) perhaps an A race should not be FULLY reflected in changes to the PLs. @Nate_Pearson @Jonathan what is your thinking on this? Maybe this should be optional and our choice.

(PS With the the 24hr my A race, and the 12hr 3 weeks later, I could only put the 12hr in as a B race.)

Even if PLs accurately reflected your A race I’m not sure there’d be an issue. E.g. Let’s assume after a 12 and 24 hour TT (which blows my mind by the way!) that your Endurance and Tempo PLs were at 10.0. That’s fine - after those events I seriously doubt you’d be jumping straight into another block where you’re targeting improvements in those energy systems. I assume you’d likely have a block of recovery where you’re either not doing structured rides or if you do pick a TR ride it will be an Achievable one. And then quite likely after that you’d look to target a different energy system e.g. A block of VO2 to raise your FTP/ceiling. Similar for any other A race - e.g. If you’ve peaked for something punchy and achieve very high VO2 or Anaerobic PLs, then you’d want to recover and then go back to some base training before building again, so by the time you get back to trying to raise your high intensity PLs they will likely have degraded to a level that enables you to do that.


@jn92 @NateP @PhilSJones @cartsman Good news! We’ve already thought of how those kinds of “hero efforts” might affect your training.

Our system will intelligently detect races/rides that are way outside the bounds of where your current PLs are and exclude them so as not to derail your plan. We also have the ability to manually exclude these kinds of outlier efforts from PLs and AI FTP Detections if we need to override things.


They obviously don’t trust the results in all cases enough to go live. I wish they would exclude the cases they are worried about with a message like “PL cannot be calculated for this workout” then release to opt in status.


@ZackeryWeimer So if this is all work in progress - when are we likely to see outside rides included, fully?

Or is what we have now the extent of what we will see?

We don’t have an ETA at the moment, but it is currently our top priority!

We will post future updates here as they roll out.


Is it possible to at least release to Early Access the AI/ML assessment of an outside ride, even if it doesn’t feed directly into adaptations? This would go a long way in showing progress and help users assess the training value of unstructured rides.

Additionally, I assume this applies (or will apply) to structured rides where intervals are added or skipped, rather than just a pass/fail.


It would really be great to have a Repeat Interval button. Now you have to extend the cooldown and adjust the intensity, which is a bit cumbersome in some cases when the cooldown is a ramp.

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Does trainer roads outside workout analysis feed the adaption engine?

The analysis is just based on your survey response, qualitative. There isn’t any detailed quantative analysis at the moment. At the extreme, you could tell the system you’ve passed with flying colours, when in fact you struggled and came nowhere near close thus misleading the system.

Are you talking about for an outside workout? If so, I go into my Garmin and use the workout menu to repeat, pause, or skip intervals. I can’t remember how you do this on Wahoo, but I’m almost certain you can.

No, for inside workouts.


@hpbieker Can I suggest you start a new topic for this, otherwise your request for a new feature will be lost in this discussion.

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on that note… I’d also like to be able to skip or shorten a recovery valley. essentially have the same audio button interface but for workouts: pause, play, stop, forward, backward. Essentially a more potent lap button.

Right idea to post these suggestions a separate topics for discussion and tracking by TR vs tossing them into unrelated topics like this.

With respect to the suggestion for adding intervals on the fly, here is the existing topic for people to use.

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As mentioned above related to TR outside workouts performed on head units, I am able to do this (FFW, RWD) on my Wahoo and am pretty sure similar options exist on Garmin.

I understood the original comment to be in the context of inside workouts on the TR mobile App. Outside workouts are more malleable to ones taste with the lap button and the options the headunit and it’s workout interface provides.

I‘d like a forward/backward button for inside workouts on the TR mobile app. But as others mentioned maybe this request should be moved outside by either you or the person that initially made the suggestion. It’s a valid one imho.

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TIL scrubbing trough TR workouts.

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Are you planning to release updated plans tailored to one’s available time to train together with outdoor PLs?

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