What is happening with the forum?

[Under ideal conditions, this statement is a tautology.] OK. I’m not sure where this is going. Anyhow, I don’t race, but I read what racers have to say in the forum because I learn - so, bless TR (apologies to George Carlin). I don’t ride in the rain or frozen precip anymore because I don’t have to - so on those days, bless TR. Before TR, I rode tens of thousands of miles outdoors over the decades, but never got faster - but since then, bless TR. I find myself psychologically incapable of doing outdoor training workouts because I like to look at stuff while riding (My son calls this my “superpowers of distraction” - big time ADHD) - so following training plans in the pain cave, bless TR. One year, work got so f-ing busy (not by choice) that 80 percent of my annual miles were on my trainer - so, bless TR. My brother has had a coach for the last 5 years, he has a higher FTP and is faster than me. I’m OK with that because I never had the $150/month in the first place - so, bless TR. I’ve even done and still do 3-hour indoorTR TB workouts because I found that the gains from these workouts translated outdoors - so, bless TR. Here’s where it gets weird - I’ve grown to like the occasional 2-3 hour workouts (currently woven into SSMV)! Grateful Dead and Jazz concert footage, books on DVD, futbol, tivo’d reruns of key stages of the Tour and la Vuelta - what’s not to like?! Year over year, I’m getting faster and stronger, and even though the increments are smaller than I would like, there’s no wailing and gnashing of teeth here.

Now to specifics: I’ve also noticed the coarsening of language over these last debates. A couple of memes. First one: two camps bloviating with sharpened knives about how many angels dance on the head of the pin. I’m okay with this theological debate until the volume escalates and I have push the mute button. But, you can’t fault them - these riders can’t help it. Think about it. Psychologically the most intense vitriol is often spilled between two sides whose passions and beliefs are most closely aligned so they fight over the the 5% they disagree with. Religion (evangelicals who denounce talking in tongues as satanic vs. penecostals who embrace it - me? they’re all a bunch of racists voting for Trump - see White Too Long by Robert Jones), politics (the GOP vs the GQP), or cycling science WAY deep in the weeds – it doesn’t matter; these are psychological proclivities observable in humans. So these rider probably live in the 6th circle of Dante’s Inferno. They may realize that there’s life outside of these walls. On the other hand, while not paring away oncoming vicious verbal thrusts, they seem like a happy bunch.

Second meme: For me, this next group resides in the 9th circle of the Inferno. They are the worst. Here I’m referring those bloggers who blast Chad, et al. for trying to personally screw them out of their last dime of consumer surplus. They smell rats everywhere! These riders gleefully explain to us unwitting morons the skullduggery Chad, et al. use to cynically extract profit. Oh, my! Seriously, don’t you feel the joy these folks bring to the weekly podcast?!! I sure as hell do! It inspires me! So, just out of curiosity I’d like to see a Venn diagram that maps the overlap between these bloggers and those engaged in exposing the Deep State. I bet the intersection isn’t the null set.

The only regret I have is that TR didn’t exist 20 years ago. I suppose I would be a significantly faster rider than I am now. On the other hand, back then I was a serious gym rat with a deadly 15’-18’ jumper when left unguarded. Then my knees gave out.

Shit! I missed dinner! What the heck! I didn’t mean to kill all this time, but Edie Harris’s Instant Death CD was playing in the background.

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The UK :+1:

You can’t leave the house in summer without three layers, for fear of rain, snow or gales.

As a few people have already noted, I love a healthy debate. I like to think that I have an open mind. You don’t have to prove me wrong because I’m happy to listen to what you have to say. We (collective we) just have to be able to say ‘I see what you’re saying and why you’re saying it, but on this occasion, I’m going to tread my own path…

I’m grateful that personal attacks rarely, if ever, happen on this forum. It came close in the Dylan thread and I personally felt that a few comments aimed towards TR Team Members came close. As a personal test, I ask myself, would I say this to the persons face? Do I benefit, does the forum benefit, does the recipient benefit? No to any one of the above, I don’t post my comment.

It’s also worth remembering that with the exception of a very select few, we’re all doing this (riding our bikes) because we love riding bikes. It’s not our source of income. Our livelihood doesn’t depend on it. Do like you do when out on the road and you see another cyclist. Smile and wave :grinning:

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If you live in an area that allows for nice and safe outdoor riding, then yes.

Over here though those 3hrs on the trainer are far more enjoyable than riding outdoors. The bike paths are swamped by families, pensioners, and pedestrians. The roads are full of idiots. Being overtaken by someone going 100+ km/h with half a meter distance is the standard. So outdoor comes eventually down to being super unproductive or super unsafe. Not to mention the weather. :sweat_smile:

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If all forums/threads were like the Ironman ones you set up the world would be a better place :grinning:

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This kind of attitude is a huge part of the problem. We should be able to discuss the limitations and tradeoffs of TR without being told to love it or leave it. If you don’t think a particular criticism of TR is constructive then respectully point that out, but lets stop questioning whether people should be posting here.

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If TR added on to there existing plans:

A polarised training plan
A masters plan
and
A SS (length) progression plan
Would there be anything for people to complain about?

Apart from the Keto people, or the peoples front of Keto…but what have they ever done for us?

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Oh so it’s like the hospitals I have worked at :upside_down_face:

Excellent post and an excellent book recommendation.

We would still see people complain about too much intensity. Mostly the people with inflated FTPs but also all those unwilling to make minor tweaks to a predefined plan.

IOW, It’s seems to be less about the plans and more about the expectation of folks. I guess the team will have to start with addressing and managing those expectations. Perhaps by offering a more flexible plan builder and a more straightforward way of tailoring the plans.

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Hey there - In my opinion the problem isn’t that there are complaints and concerns. I have complaints about TR. The problem is how they are being expressed, and spreading across multiple threads repeatedly.

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Then there are also the TR white knights who will find ways to shift fault to the user when the user follows the program that’s available.

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I am pretty tanned. :wink:

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image
A gently reminder to please not make this thread into another breakout thread of “the Thread”. thank you for your consideration

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Please stop approaching me :pray:

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Unfortunately some people will always complain, and some people can’t swallow their pride and use an appropriate ftp and/ or training plan.
I do the low volume plan even tho I can handle mid volume, I’m in it for the long run. Slow progress is better than burning out and hating life/ blaming someone else…IMO

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I wonder if it’s about having the expectation that the plan will fit regardless of idiosyncrasies. It’s difficult to know what is a specific need for adaption and it’s easy to “blame” the plan.

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Quite a bit of off-topic comments here.

Please refocus on the FORUM aspect and not training related discussion.
“Training” talk belongs in the “Training” category, and this topic is deliberately in the “Uncategorized” category on purpose.

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@rentagreement I think what you describe is a natural evolution of any forum as more people join and contribute. Inevitably, you get more different points of view, conflicting guidance, and repetition.

As more people contribute on a given thread, it also gets harder to keep track of the where the discussion is going, and contribute posts that build on discussion that comes before.

Sometimes I’m turned off from contributing to a given thread because of the sheer volume of posts that I might/should(?) read before adding my post. And if I post something, by the time I’m done typing, another 20 posts have been added and my post gets buried further up the thread.

For me, I’ve tried to be more judicious on the threads I follow, and when I engage. That’s something I can control, and preserve the experience for me.

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Oh man I’m quite the opposite. Right now in the middle of my first winter of what you’ve described, I am going crazy and have never been this depressed. Haven’t ridden outside since October. There’s been snow on the ground since Christmas and I don’t think we’ve hit above 35F in over a month. Very much not a cold winter person, I need to be outside.

That said, I’ve spent more hours on the trainer this winter than ever before. Hoping when it warms up I’ll be a lot faster.

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I live in FL. The “coldest” it has been here is 38 for a day… (that was the low… high was 5x).
And i have ride exactly 5 times out since October…

So no much difference there,

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