Thank you to all of you who have shared your experiences with vegetarian / plant based diets. Reading your comments and reviewing the recommended resources (particular kudos to VC, Cowspiracy, Knives over Forks and Ian Cramer Pod) has inspired me to just finish up a weeks worth of vegetarian meal prep (only a bit of egg / cottage cheese from animal products).
Whilst Cowspiracy definitely opened my eyes up to the environmental side of the argument, I’ll admit that my motivation is predominately selfish in that I’m hoping to see some tangible performance benefits. A bit of background on me:
27 yo male, cycling competitively for the past two years with a training volume of 12-15hrs p/week, FTP of 362 and my weight has stagnated at 77kg (179cm) over the past 12 months. I came from being a ‘stocky’ soccer player so my body shape has changed quite drastically from cycling.
I’m not sure what my body composition is now but through my partner’s gym I’ve signed up (in writing only) to an 8-week challenge starting 31 August that will allow me to get a pre and post Dexa scan.
Despite focussing on weight loss from a performance POV for the past 12 months (utilising MyFitnessPal) I have struggled to achieve any sustainable results. IMO a lot of this is attributable to mindless eating after dinner when I struggle to relax / ‘switch-off’ and feel the need to continue snacking. I’m hopeful that through the larger portions this diet will allow and with the continued assistance of tracking through MFP I’ll be able to lose a few stubborn kg that I know are there!
A part of me is hopeful that by writing this down and presenting it to the TR community I’ll be able to stick to this.
I guess I’ll check back in with any results (subjective and objective) over the coming months.
If that is your main motivation, then I don’t think becoming a vegetarian or vegan will make much of a difference — you can improve your diet with or without animal products. Cutting out the bits of egg or cheese that you are putting in your food is not going to magically tip the balance. IMHO the best reasons for going flexitarian, vegetarian or vegetarian are ethical and environmental ones.
Finding good resources on how to eat better is quite hard, doubly so if you are looking at certain vegan channels that sell extreme versions of vegan diets (very often extremely carb-focussed). (But that also applies to certain non-vegan diets as well such as keto.) Often sensible arguments are mixed in with non-sense — scientific studies on diets are quite hard to perform and to analyze. Mostly you are left with correlations, and extracting causal relationships is very hard. Reducing meat intake and focussing more on vegetables (as compared with a standard American diet, for example) will be a huge improvement for your health.
Lastly, keep in mind that you are already at 4.7 W/kg, and you may be simply very close to your physiological maximum, and no amount of dieting or training will push your specific or absolute power much higher.
I’ll be very interested to read through this thread. Decided last week to try Veganism. My weight has been the biggest impediment to improving (I train and ride a lot) and I want to try this out a) because the environmental and ethical benefits appeal to me and b) this will make me much more mindful about what I am actually eating.
Whilst Cowspiracy definitely opened my eyes up to the environmental side of the argument, I’ll admit that my motivation is predominately selfish in that I’m hoping to see some tangible performance benefits.
You’re going to save a lot of lives by going vegetarian/vegan, so that’s definitely NOT selfish.
Thanks for your input mate. I guess I should have specified that the (potential) performance improvements are probably what initially planted the seed a few weeks ago, however, I’m aware that the environmental benefits / consciousness will be what determines whether this diet will be sustainable. This side of the diet is absolutely an important consideration.
I’m aware that improving performance / diet with or without animal products is possible but given my difficultly in achieving any sustainable weight loss I thought it time to consider alternatives. I think I struggled with a meat-based diet as I rarely felt full after my meals (when trying to adhere to correct caloric intake) which inevitably resulted in snacking / mindless eating afterward. I’ve found historically that when I’ve had meals that are predominately plant-based (I’m kinda obsessed with spinach / sweet potato / legumes) I’m able to eat the ‘right’ amount whilst maintaining my ‘fullness’. I guess I probably should have come to this realisation sooner but I suppose we’re all on our individual paths here.
Definitely aware of the possibility that at 4.7 W/kg I’m nearing my physiological limit, however, I’m fairly confident there’s a reasonable amount of excess I can trim from my abdomen!
Whatever happens, I feel positive about the environmental benefits from my choice and any performance / holistic health outcomes that come my way will be an added benefit! I’ll touch base over the coming weeks with some outcomes!
Did 18 months of being a vegan for health issues, felt really good up until a few months ago when I started to get sick and struggle again with my mood and anxiety, started to add some meat back in a couple of meals a week and seems to be helping, sticking to eating plant based the majority of the time, and the rest we’ll see how it goes…
If you feel better eating less animal products, that’s great. But I just wanted to caution you against linking a plant-based diet to weight loss. Given that you train a lot and put out a lot of power in both, absolute and relative terms, I don’t think you need to diet (as in a short-term adjustment of your eating habits). You don’t need to change your diet at all (now meaning how you eat long-term) to lose a few kgs, you just need to introduce a caloric deficit.
A plant-based diet can help introduce a caloric deficit. Minimally processed plants generally have a lower caloric density than processed foods and animal products. If you eat a lot of low caloric density foods, the same amount of calories will make you feel more full. A plant-based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one that works for a lot of people.
Of course, you are right. My point was that going flexitarian, vegetarian or vegan is a long-term modification of your diet, which should be kept separate from short-term goals such as weight loss.
As far as I understand, what causes satiation is foods with high fiber content such as legumes, not necessarily foods with low caloric content. But in my experience more efficient than that is eating normally during the day and going to bed slightly hungry.
As already mentioned, it is the best to think about removing animal-derived foods in the same way as getting a generally stronger body. Both are the long term commitments and neither would necessarily make you leaner or faster.
They are however absolutely and without a doubt, worth pursuing.
I find this relatively true too, so if I really want more I would for example add peanut butter to porridge. Alternatively can add pea protein. I think having meat and dairy really is just a taste choice, I believe you can get all you need from plant sources, albeit requiring more effort to dial in what you need, but if you want meat, you should just have it.
“For me, unfortunately (I guess) fiber alone doesn’t really cause satiation. I need it to be paired with either protein or protein and fat.”
No it probably won’t. It has been a while since I read up on the satiety index. IIRC There is no one size fits all here. I have been vegetarian for 30 years and fat adapted for 5 (incidental that… didn’t realize it was a thing until a couple of years ago! Did it for sleep quality reasons). When I was shifting the diet to low carb I noted that my personal satiety index seemed to prefer more fats and proteins per calorie. At this time I also noted that me and sugars just did not get along at all (shame that…sweet tooth!). While I was in the process of reducing my carbs ( I didn’t do that whole dive in nonsense, just edged them down over the course of a few months) I noted that the high satiety foods like the good old spud sort of bounced: Yeah immediately after ingestion I was blimped… then within a relatively short time I was feeling the need again ( those food apps are genius for highlighting this stuff out for you if you actually pay attention to them). Also my GI sensations were not so great; a cold echo of the sensations when I ate sugars. Insulin response flag of course… got it checked no diabetes thankfully but my rambling point here is that in this branch of nutrition we really are in the realm of every one is different. Also, IMHO, you are probably going to be driven by your historical macro distributions; homeostasis again. Your body is used to digesting certain macro distributions and variations on that do not sit well in the short term. Keto flu being a glaring example. I think that satiety is affected by that too.
Been veggie for 30 years. Never too late to learn new stuff. I would caution anyone who does transition over to veggie or vegan, from my own relatively recent experience, to track your macros carefully. While the western diet is hellishly carb orientated a western veggie diet can be even more so! If I were to do it now. I would track my macros on my old meat based diet then try and keep the same macros but plant based. I am not an dietitian so this is in the class of random internet nonsense but I suspect any significant diet changes usually fail because they muck up your prevailing macro distribution. To punch through that requires commitment and a faith in the process that can be difficult to sustain.
I’ll second the homeostasis theory. Over the last ~3months I’ve been transitioning into a HFLC semi-veghead lifestyle, for both health and sport reasons. Took a good 3 weeks to bust out of the ‘Keto flu’ stage, even though I wasn’t going Keto. The gut biology has to change and adapt to the new way of life; even though it can take a while, it’s amazing that the body can adapt in such a way.
Also agree on Western veg diets being carb heavy. It’s been a challenge trying to combine LC and veg but I’m getting a handle on it (and lost the love handles in the process!).
You have my sympathies… When I read about it it sounded bloody awful. When I started it I was just tracking calorie balance. Noted that the Macro data was available in all the apps too… My carb load as a veggie was sometimes as high as 80%. For me since I was trying to get a handle on my overall calories. I just picked that macro and edged that one down to get the calorie deficit. Never thought about the whole KETO thing. Then I read a paper that pointed to insulin response as being a factor in sleep disruption. So I just kept going. Got to 20grms or less as a rule. Never had the Keto Flu, nor knew what Keto was till later. Not sure that I am Keto. Best of luck on the journey.
I hope this finds you well and commend you for sharing your experiences of cycling on a plant based diet. I have been whole food plant based vegan for over 5 years and have ran an mountainous ultra-marathon, cycled across Canada in 25 days, and America is 17 days (300+kms/day on 4.5hrs sleep/night) all on a vegan diet. I actually cycled across America on a raw vegan diet which consisted of mostly liquid nutrition of smoothies and raw fruit and some seeds.
I’m certainly no elite cyclist however my FTP has been as high as 315 and is currently 290. I typically get my blood tested once or twice a year and have never had any issues, except I do supplement with B12 injections.
When I’m “in season” my breakfasts are ussually smoothies, lunches are salad or “nice-cream”, and dinner is usually the same as lunch or something light.
In the off-season, I typically revert to some more cooked heavier foods such as chilies, warm soups, steamed veggies, etc. I still usually prefer a smoothie for breakfast.
