I am curious about the validity of a 20-min FTP Test for non-professional riders. My first FTP as a 79 year old rider was 224 average watts. This computes to 213 as my FTP but my best hour ride was only 198 average watts. So I would like survey of riders that answers the following questions:
What is your reported FTP,
how was it established,
and have you ever completed a continuous 60-minute ride averaging at least that FTP using the same power meter?
For fun, I did a ramp test on Rouvy that came back as 255 (TR had me at 245 at the time). Even though I’m not particularly strong anaerobically, I felt that was a bit high for my current fitness so I just stuck with TR’s estimate which seems pretty accurate.
I don’t think I’ve ever done an hour effort at any ftp I’ve had. That would be a taxing effort mentally and physically for little purpose. I just need my ftp in the ballpark for training sessions and I’ve trained long enough to know when it feels a bit far off
95% of 20 Minute power was always supposed to be done with a 5 minute anaerobic “blowout” beforehand to reduce anaerobic contribution. With that said - no way I’d ever be able to do a true 20 minute effort after anything resembling a 5-minute all-out effort.
There was a study showing that FTP could be anywhere from I think 89% to 97% of your 20 minute power based on the person, with 95% being the middle of the bell curve.
Also keep in mind - one hour power is not necessarily your FTP and not necessarily the best thing to compare to. It’s one way to estimate it, similar to 95% of 20 minute power, but some people may never be able to ride for an hour at their FTP, even all out when fresh.
I have done lots of tests over the years, are you a TR user now? This only matters to the setting workouts discussion. I like the AIFTP as it sets my workouts to my exact liking, I am a long time user.
There are 1000’s of posts on FTP on here and elsewhere, you will start a huge debate if that is what you are looking for.
FTP Tests rankings IMO
Ramp - Terrible - tends to overstate
8 Min with short sprints blowout - still terrible but slightly better than a ramp
20 Min with 5 min blowout - better than 8 min, hard to pace correctly
2 x 20 Min with 5 min blowout - approaching best, more accurate, but mentally taxing and requires practice to pace correctly. Also you are wiped for days.
45 - 60 Min The best, but who is motivated to do that? For me it would be a race scenario or being chased by a bear. This would be a challenge to recover from and if not properly motivated likely understated.
Good responses already. I rarely have a number for my FTP - I usually think about it as a range, and manually update it to be what I think is in the middle of the range.
For me, 95% of a fresh 20min all-out effort isn’t far off my hour limit. The following efforts were about two weeks apart (and both season’s bests).
20min 396W (of which 95% is 376W)
60min 372W (was not quite on the limit, but very close)
That’s 94%, in which the 20min was a complete tank-emptying attempt, and the 60min was close but not quite.
+1 for the KM test. It helps me define my “real world power” and set goals for the kind of riding I generally do. The only exception would be for VO2 workouts, but I prefer to do those KM style too (which is a whole different conversation).
To answer OP, I’ve never made it to a full hour during a test, and I’m ok with that.
I did not know about the 5-min blowoff. That would obviously lower everyone’s FTP. I am training for a ride I want to complete indoors on my 80th birthday next year. I worry the training in Zone 2 80% of the time will not help me achieve my goals if my FTP is off. I have been modifying my hour rides to help zero in on a sustainable FTP using 4 elements to cross check rather than just power alone. I monitor my RPE, HR, and smoothness of my pedal stroke as well as power to zero in my FTP. Using these cross checks my FTP is at least 10% lower than the 20-min test suggests. I may be overthinking this but it is fun for me to debate these things with my AI coach. I hope to be able to help other seniors reach their goals also.
Your 20 and 60-min numbers are close to what I have been experiencing. I also think there are so many other factors that influence these numbers that it is hard to predict one day to the next what my FTP will prove to be on that day.
Great article! Thanks for sharing. Intuitively, I knew that 95% of 20-min AW was a crude approximation. Sprinters likely will do better than endurance athletes using 20-min. I have been an endurance runner and rider for most of my life. I guess my vanity was hyped a bit so I started looking for ways for endurance athletes to shine.
I’ve found my occasional 20 minute tests to be around 5-10 watts within my TR specified FTP’s. I do a 5 minute effort before the 20 minute, which I target around 10 watts higher than my target 20 minute average.
Thanks Mike. I’m stuck indoors on Peloton after a serious accident 7 years ago. Seniors take longer to heal and family pressure has kept me off the road. I’m learning that most riders are wisely using “fuzzy logic” regarding their FTP and Power Zones as they impact training. It also seems to be a very personalized approach which is as it should be as we all are different even down to the cellular level. I think a healthy debate is worthwhile as it exposes us to other viewpoints. I’ll continue to mine the other posts.
When I was a rider, I found Xerts FTP model to be the closest to my 60min tests. Xerts duration for FTP would usually say about 50min for me, but when I’d do a 60min test and it would bump up.
I like the Power Duration curve in WKO5 which gives you a modeled FTP and a TTE, it’s also available now in TrainingPeaks (Premium only I think), I’ve found that the 20 minute test for me slightly over estimates my FTP, although I used to race a lot of 10mile TTs so I suspect I’m probably strong for that duration, the mFTP aligns most closely with the Kolie Moore test, which if you want a test that’s repeatable and reasonably accurate I think is hard to beat.
My best 20 minute test result: 371 watts
My best 60 minute power: 343 watts (done about 7 weeks after the above test)
So this was about 92.5%. I probably could have done a little more since it was part of a 65 minutes climb where I averaged 342 watts.
FWIW a couple weeks before I had done a ramp test that predicted an FTP of 360
I am betting the majority of riders are unable to hold their predicted FTP for 60 minutes whether that prediction came from a ramp, 20-minute test, for TR AI FTP. 60-minute right at your max is just so taxing from both a physical and mental standpoint
I believe in this. For me, I like the 20 min test with taking 90-93% of the result. But anymore, I don’t even need to test that often if you are doing good quality ftp workouts. 2 x 20, 4 x 15. You will know if you are in the ballpark.
BTW - I absolutely do NOT consider TR Level 3 Threshold workouts good quality FTP workouts.
I had good results for a few years with the 2 x 8min test, and taking 90% of the average of the two efforts. That was usually spot on for me. Also 16 good minutes of zone 5, as a workout.