I’m under 12 months into road cycling and have been told that you really only need like 3 different static session types depending on wanting a polarized or pyramidal structure, and then just adjust your FTP accordingly as you go generally based on how your HR responds to your power zones.
These are;
Vo2 Max: 4x4min at 115% of FTP (with the goal of spending as much time as possible at HR Zone6-7)
Threshold: 4x10min at 95% FTP
Zone2: >1h at 55-70% FTP (with the goal of constant pressure on pedals and not exceeding HR zone2 because that triggers a shift in your body’s energy system and fuel sources)
All the ones looking like this is rubbish and will not get you into the intended effort;
Okay, got it. A stepping stone to get towards a “better” session.
I’ve done a ramp test and my zone 2 sessions is staying within the correct HR range. When doing a VO2 Max interval session I’m not spending more than seconds at the correct HR-zone due to the nature of the session structure (too short intervals and/or too much rest in between).
How about sweet spot training? My friend is telling me that it leads to increased fatigue but not the gains of threshold and should be avoided.
I guess everything is relative of course but with a limited time you want to see progress and be as effective as possible I guess.
Endurance is a long game, you can’t rush. I honestly wish I spent more time thinking in years, as opposed to single seasons.
Follow the plan, give honest survey feedback and gradually work your way up. Depending on the plan / goals chosen and phase, you’ll get different systems to work, stick with it, don’t go looking for magic sessions. Sweet spot can be great but it needs to fit with the rest of the week, volume, phase, etc.
The software may also throw in easier sessions for some energy systems depending on the rest of the week. Not all sessions are going to be bangers.
I would also place less emphasis on heart rate and more on the post work out survey, how did the session feel. I think that’s more useful. If Tumbe was easy, you’ll get progressed quicker.
In summary, Tumbe can be a perfectly good session in the context of your year or even how the rest of your week is shaping up.
Ok, but how should I think when submitting the survey post ride? How it felt compared to how a zone2 or vo2 max session SHOULD feel or just how much work I felt it was?
What you’re seeing here is TR easing you into training. See how Tumbe is rated as a VO2 Level 1.6? That means it’s an easier VO2 session. Once you achieve it, TR will give you one that’s harder, and then harder, etc. in the future. Once your FTP resets or if you haven’t trained VO2 in a while, you’ll drop down to a lower level and work your way up again. This is true for all the different training zones. The goal is that it’s better to work with a plan that is achievable and that promotes consistency over time. You’ll be better off in the long run if you ride week after week, month after month, year after year. If you try to go too hard, you often end up exhausted, unmotivated, or injured, which leads to inconsistency.
Having said that, if you have lots of experience with training VO2 and know that you can easily knock out 5x4’ VO2 sessions, you could choose that workout and then TR would learn your capabilities.
Like you, I usually prefer to do my VO2 sessions without a set power goal in order to ramp my HR up quickly and then hold it in zone for as long as possible. For this reason (and others), I prefer to do VO2 sessions with Erg mode turned off, so that I can control the power based on HR, but that’s a whole different topic (and if you search the forums, you’ll find some great conversations on it. Since you mentioned not getting enough time in zone, check out the thread on Hard Start VO2 as a way to get that heart pumping quickly and keep it there! It’s also possible you’re grinding the VO2 work, and this will make it take forever to get your heart pumping, so make sure you’re spinning those pedals fast (more info on this in other posts too)).
Okay, it makes sense. But when doing zone 2 sessions most often I like to think that my HR is within range more than my power. Is it possible switching the z2-sessions in TR or somehow do them “freeride”?
Who told you this? I’d suggest doing your own independent research to determine if you agree with this philosophy.
For cycling, IMO heart rate is much less important than zone power. I’d really only consider it as part of the equation for Z2 rides as a matter to ensure you aren’t going too hard. For threshold/VO2 work, I pay attention to it, but don’t really factor into any of it.
Runners focus on heart rate because they don’t have power meters.
Since you seem geared towards polarized training (all I do and have had tremendous progress), are your workout screenshots above from a TrainerRoad polarized plan? They don’t seem to be - I’ve done a couple and have never seen a sweet spot included that I recall. It shouldn’t be in there.
I think you’re jumping like three steps ahead and overthinking things quite a bit. This means you’re fitting in well as a cyclist already
Certainly the three workouts you’ve described are a great foundation - but I think it is incredibly limiting to only do the same three things forever. The best plan is the one you can complete - both physically and mentally.
At your level of fitness it is more important that you train and ride in a way that excites and motivates you than in whatever your friend is telling you is the ‘optimal’ plan. The differences between polarized, pyramidal, sweet spot, or whatever other methodology are comparatively small when compared to the benefits of just following the basic tenants of any structured plan
Pick the plan that sounds the most fun to you - do it for six months then try a different one if you’re bored or concerned that it isn’t optimal
You need some sort of progression in these sessions or else you will stagnate.
For threshold and below that is generally a progression of increasing time in zone. For your 4x10 that is an easy threshold workout, but I would want to see that progressed out to 2x30 or similar over several sessions.
For your vo2 session it’s again pretty easy (especially at such a low % but there is individual variation there). Unless doing a block of vo2 work I would want to be doing 5-6x 5m maximally and progress that by increasing intensity rather than time in zone.
Having 3 static sessions is super limiting and you will quickly stagnate if that is all you are doing.
Honestly, you could go pretty far with those three types of workouts and some variations on them. You are missing any kind of sprint workout though.
The question is always how much of a dose and when during the year to do which type of workout. TR provides all of that.
If you want to learn about training, I recommend Phil Skiba’s book " Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes". In the book he talks about what works scientifically.
I think that’s an oversimplification and unless you vary these three types of sessions, it is absolutely false. That’s because unless you make the workouts progressively more difficult, you’d plateau very quickly.
One of the fundamental training principles is progressive overload, which means you need to increase the difficulty of workouts over time.
You have oversimplified things. I think a better point of view is the following: you decide which power zone/energy systems to target. If it is VO2max, you should offer a workout of the right difficulty, and for some athletes that’s a workout like Ochsenhorn or Tumbe.
When my wife started taking her cardio fitness seriously, she tried out a few training sessions on the bike. On the first workout, she went “all out’. Her max heart rate was 143 bpm, I believe.
In the end, she decided running was more to her liking. Now her average heartrate regularly exceeds 143 bpm, and looking at her performance, she still isn’t pushing herself to her limit. (Her race pace performance is much better than what she can sustain during training sessions.)
Lastly, a comment on pyramidal vs. polarized vs. whatever vs. durability: especially as a beginner, that doesn’t matter much. (For reference, I use both, polarized and sweet spot base blocks, so I like both.) It is much, much more important to be
consistent,
sustainable (i. e. don’t overdo it in terms of volume and intensity), and
Unless you have an event planned that you’ll be completing, then the Increasing FTP plan is the right plan to increase your FTP.
@Pbase did a great job explaining that when you first get started with TR, the first few workouts may seem/feel easy, and this is intentional. This way, the system can calibrate where you need to be in intensity level. As you can see, your next VO2 Max workout has a level of 3.4. As you keep completing the workouts, they will become even more fine-tuned to you!
Lastly, I just wanted to mention that at TR, we are firm believers that power is the ultimate training measure as it does not vary by external factors like HR does. So while HR can be a useful metric for training, your TR workouts will be power-based.
Welcome to TR!
as it does not vary by external factors like HR does. So while HR can be a useful metric for training, your TR workouts will be power-based.