Unstructured outdoor rides and adaptive training/progresssion

Totally, as good as intervals.icu is, identifying intervals outside isn’t as clean as analyzing an indoor ride file, so outdoor workouts where I’ve kept pretty steady state power aren’t really picked up by the algorithm, at least not like short power stuff. I imagine TR is probably trying to overcome problems like that

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Hi there. I don’t mind if AT doesn’t adjust my progression levels upwards as credit for outdoor rides. But I think it classifies the TR workout as missing and then scales subsequent workouts down. Is this right?

Also curious about this since I’m primarily doing outdoor rides on my Wahoo right now.

Outside Workouts on Wahoo are not currently receiving “credit” within Adaptive Training. It’s a known issue and current point of development our engineers are working on.

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Are there any workarounds here? I’ve been hitting my workouts consistently for a few months on my Wahoo and adaptive training has me at all 1’s.

Not at the moment, unfortunately. We know lots of athletes are opting to do their workouts outside so we’re hustling to resolve this!

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Ivy - and/or @SeanHurley or @Nate_Pearson - can you please give us an informed guesstimate (i.e. more specific than ‘hustling’) for when TR AT is going to cover outside as well as indoor rides? I’ve just entered the Beta and many of my progression levels are at or around 1 despite being my strengths (e.g. Endurance, Sweet Spot). From what I’ve read in the Forum this is because while I’ve been doing VO2 and Threshold sessions on the trainer my longer Endurance / SST rides have all been outside - it being summer and all :wink:
I know lots of us are in the same boat. And I realise it can’t be an easy issue to resolve or you’d have already done so. But six months after first being informed I was on the AT list finally getting access to AT leaves me feeling distinctly underwhelmed, and with a sense you may have over-promised way too early and are still struggling to deliver.
And yes, I use a Wahoo head unit (which is great) which is set to sync with Strava. I can’t see how AT can be considered a success until it plays nicely with both of those, can you?
Thanks.

They can not. TR has already done so numerous times in the past on various features only to find bugs that delay public real ease.

Success? It’s not even released yet. It’s in Beta and you are one of the guinea pigs to flush out issues. Consider yourself lucky to be in beta and enjoy the features until it’s released to the public. As a beta tester your role is to use the new features and report any issues to TR support.

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I think TR REALLY needs to push the BETA part a lot more and a lot harder.

AT is an experiment. If you can’t handle being a part of an experiment, then you are not the right person to use it. Not an attack on anyone, I just feel like too many people think this is some special training platform when it isn’t. Maybe someday it will, but it isn’t yet.

We are closer to those people behind the wheel of self driving cars 5 years ago, we are not the guys sitting in the back seat 10 years from now.

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Is there a way to use your mobile device in lieu of a head unit for outside workouts?

You can connect and run the regular TR app. Some people did and still do that. It lacks the GPS info and is just the same workout setup as you have inside.

So, not really targeted for or intended for outside use, but without a head unit, its possibly the easiest option.

So you would just load the workout as an inside workout? Im asking because i currently don’t have a head unit.

I still can’t believe people don’t understand this.

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I consider myself lucky to not have signed up for the beta, like you I’m under the impression some people confuse testing with early access :slight_smile:
BUT
What @JSTootell said: They should stress the beta status more.
In fact they do the opposite by hyping AT with Nate and the whole crew saying they can’t live anymore without AT because it is soooo awesome. You really can’t blame people if they have expectations at this point …

I know this has been debated over and over again, but the release was maybe ultimately rushed due to the bad publicity the week before …
Don’t get me wrong, I think it is great, that TR is trying to develop something like AT. Since I’m obviously not on AT I can’t judge, but I’m under the impression that most companies would call a product in this phase alpha (or maybe you just hear the complaints and the vast majority is fine?). Don’t confuse this with me saying this openness (is this even a word?) and showing what TR is working on is a bad thing. It’s just … I personally jumped on so many hype trains (yes, I’m middle aged), I can sit this one out :wink:

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This is with distance my most wanted missing feature for AT.

If it makes the puzzle a little easier: it would be quite acceptable to me if (the first iteration) considers all unstructured outdoor rides to be “endurance” and only affect that PL.

What I am hoping for is that the machine learning detects that I can do 8 hour endurance rides with ease and decide that a 1 hour endurance TR workout is not going to help much. Or, even better, that I can schedule a 4-8 hour outdoor ride every Sunday and that TR “compensates” by scheduling shorter but more intense workouts during the week.

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I very much hope AT / the next generation of TR will be a success. We’ll all benefit.

But the announcement of AT on 25 Feb looked an awful lot like a new product release. The video which accompanied it (nice production values and all) lasts 1 minute and mentions Beta zero times: Adaptive Training: The Right Workout. Every Time. - TrainerRoad

Whether or not the Dylan Johnson YouTube upload on 14 Feb caused Nate and the team to make the release earlier than planned is up for debate. The fact that the beta is still missing such key components as outside workouts in July (including compatibility with Wahoo units and with Strava) suggests it was released too early and promised more than it could initially deliver.

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I think there’s general agreement here about the introduction of AT being overly optimistic and looking a lot like early release vs beta. Given that, IMHO there is still a difference between how TR continues to position AT and where it is in development. For example, in last week’s podcast Nate says AT is working outdoors for structured workings on Garmin. What’s left unsaid is (and what I’ve heard from support and read here) is that the survey process is too rigorous on outdoor rides and delivers struggle/fail surveys too often when not actually warranted.

It’s unclear for me if marking the survey as “did not struggle” and then rating it on the easy-all out scale allows for progression or not – my experience would indicate one TR thinks you have failed/struggled you miss out on progressions. Can TR confirm what happens?

Update: just finished Mt Field outdoors, hit midpoint of the three 12-min SS intervals at or slightly above for both AP and NP, and got the struggle survey and no PL updates… and AT recommended drop the 7/14 SS workout by 1.0 PL. From this end-user’s POV outdoor workouts on Garmin are still not working.

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In the past, the number of people complaining that TR is too hard far outnumbered those who complained that TR is too easy.

If you think TR might be feeding you workouts that are too easy, Workout Alternates addresses this issue.

Choose a harder workout, complete it successfully, and your new PL in that energy system will match that of the workout. Furthermore, relevant energy systems may also receive a bump.

When TR AT is able to analyze unstructured outdoor in the future, I’d temper my expectations because it’s probably going to be conservative in its estimation, which is probably how it should be.

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TRUTH. Its a high priority and being worked on actively. Thanks for your patience, we get the frustration for sure and will provide updates as they’re available.

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Aren’t we supposed to DM Jonathan?

/joking

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