Yeah, I would be dreading the bike by the end of the second week, personally. Even if you can physically handle it, I wouldn’t program it just for that mental aspect.
i dont even think that would be absorbed for future use by the time it’s completed. hope you’re doing well nash!
I did something similar in recent weeks by my usual routine was 2xthreshold and 1 O/U supplemented by 1 Z2 ride. I come from LV and whole 6 months of cycling so this was virtually a bump from LV to MV in terms of TSS.
My TTE was 45 min and my progression was:
3x15, 2x20,3x20,2x30 (with added time in Z2 at the end) ,1x60 and Gibraltar+2 at the end. I could handle this without much of a problem. My TSS was on level with MV but with 3-4 workouts a week. The O/U were the most taxating for me. I have not done any VO2 max work during this block.
Now after recovery week and small bump in FTP I am starting new block of these. But doing 4x a week a threshold workout seems pretty “hardcore”.
Did someone say my favourite word?!?
FWIW, I have a 2-week block of Threshold coming up (in a couple of weeks).
3x Threshold + 1x VO2max
Definitely doable if one has the opportunity to do proper R&R. Goal for me is simply building basic fitness and firing up all the available systems after a year-long lay-off. March I did a bunch of mixed bag stuff just to get back into it. April contains 3-week block of 3SS+1VO2 (2on/1off) and the mentioned Threshold block (same protocol). After that, it’ll be back into “real” structured training.
Why I am not surprised?
suggestions on extending tempo and sweet spot and FTP intervals are in this post:
and example TR workouts for sweet spot here:
Heaping on moar moar moar moar into a week is not the best strategy. Depending on your fitness level doing just 1 or 2 a week is all you need to see quick improvements. If you are really fit then maybe 3 a week. Just for kicks I cracked open the Time Crunched Cyclist and “experienced competitor road racing” has 3 hard days, 3 rest days, and a long Sunday endurance workout for ~7-8 hours a week. I’m just a lowly Cat 5 and made a pretty quick jump from 15 to 30 to 50 minutes, you might be surprised how fast you can work up the ladder and skip rungs. Good luck!
4x/week sounds fine if you take some precautions. But you also might consider extending your “week” instead of 7 days, maybe 8 or 9. I do this with pros/elites/people who have infinite ride time, or with folks who have 1.5-2h/day every day of the week. My other piece of advice is to start at what you know you can handle and add duration. Threshold and below always benefits from that, while above threshold usually benefits from exactly the opposite.
Currently constructing my lockdown training plan and noticed I was still working off the 7-day week hamster wheel, which can be quite restrictive. For the next 2 months I’m trying to sort out bigger 10-13 training blocks which include things like 4on/3off type combos; it really opens up the options.
Yes!! If you have flexibility, you don’t have to microcycle at 7 days. 8, 9 or 10 days can be effective. It just doesn’t work for most people with the constraints of a job, school, family, etc.
When I stop working full time, I’m planning on adjusting to a longer microcycle so I can experiment with it and have additional tools to program for athletes.
That said, 4x threshold even on a 9 or 10 day microcycle is probably still too much to sustain for more than one or two “weeks” IMO.
This is really good, and follows a lot of others who agree that longer rather than more is the best way to grow FTP.
“Go long” under FTP and the opposite over FTP. Thanks Kolie Moore for continuing to drop by and share your coaching experiences!
This is really at the heart of what I’m trying to accomplish. My approach in the past has been to “nudge” up the intensity, with over/unders (where the over segment is longer from week to week), or with hard starts … etc. But all of that occurs around a similar structure of 8-12 minute work intervals. So what I’m trying to do is leave the intensity alone but stretch out the duration of each work interval. Overall intensity of each workout as well as weekly stress is really not much changed compared to, say, General Build. It’s just how each workout is composed that is different. I will say, though, that this makes for some pretty mind-numbing trainer workouts!
The other major takeaway from Kolie’s podcast for me has been that riding at threshold should be challenging but “accomplishable”. It’s only a few watts’ difference between an accomplishable effort and one that puts me on the ragged edge of holding on after just 10 minutes. It’s been interesting to fine-tune both the value and, perhaps more important, the feeling of riding just at that level.
+1 on what Kolie said.
This was the first day of an FTP block. I like to start with 40min and then try to add 5min each week, then do a 60min test after the “down” week.
If you can ride outside, I’d say start with the 40min power you can produce twice a week, and extend the duration from there. Inside? Maybe not…
79 degrees? Damn.
Yeah 4+3 is really different then the usual 7 days in a week
Compared to any of the TR plans it is.
I noticed quite a few people here are working on VO2 and SST blocks, and are soon planning to transition over to some threshold, so it seems timely to resurrect this thread and get the threshold chat in one place. (Please move this elsewhere if there’s somewhere more suitable)
After my VO2 block and some recovery, I’m planning to do some focussed work to try to grow FTP. Because I’m not usually great after a recovery week, I’m going to FTP test on the 1st Saturday. I don’t have much experience with suprathreshold workouts, but figure it’s a different stimulus and more interesting than doing all O/U workouts.
After these 3 weeks, I’ll have a recovery week and then probably do another block and work on extending TTE, and these will be more around the 95-97% FTP work level plus long SST.
What are your thoughts? What would you change?
I would be inclined to make the Friday a choice between Pettit/Taku/off depending on feel. I’ve fallen into the trap of making easy days a bit too long in the past. Your Thursday and Saturdays are super high quality, so I would want to make sure the Friday doesn’t detract from them.
I would do a progression on thursday of threshold (2x15-2x20-3x15 (or tougher)with minimal rest). I would make the sunday workout a longer endurance ride. Four (sub) threshold workouts per week is too hard for me
I’m actually most ‘worried’ about Tuesdays - those are gonna be tough
The 90 minute Fridays are really just to keep my weekly hours consistent with where they have been for a while, which seems to work alright in terms of recovery. With some extended cooldowns, I’ll probably be in the 10-11 hour range, which seems to work for me at the moment. Although if I do start to struggle then 100% agree that the Tue/Fri are the ones to turn down.