I’m finding that I’m missing the mark with my threshold workouts, but smashing VO2 max and SS. The problem I face is that I can complete 4×10min @102% FTP threshold workouts by reducing intensity to 95%. I can also complete 7×5min @102% FTP threshold workouts by reducing intensity to 97%. After both of these workouts I’m pretty cooked.
My questions is, will longer intervals with a greater reduction in intensity be more beneficial than shorter intervals with less of an intensity reduction?
If both SS and VO2 workouts are OK then seems your FTP is in the right place. In which case it might just be getting used to the particular form of suffering that is threshold!
I’d start by doing workouts that you can complete as intended and then progress upwards from there. E.g. Kingsbury is a threshold workout with 5 x 5 minutes @ 95-99% which should be achievable from where you are. Do something like that that you can nail at 100%. Then pick a workout at a slightly higher level (like Garfield - 4 x 5’ @ 100%) and progress until you’re hopefully able to nail the workouts that you’re currently having to dial down. Or pick a plan and sign up to the adaptive training beta and TR will pick those workouts for you automatically.
Sounds like your FTP is too high - you’re possibly doing the SST intervals close to/at FTP. If you’re on AT, then hopefully you’ll get assigned easier workouts so as to not destroy you, but IMO consider reducing your FTP so at to get the appropriate stimulus from each workout. It’s hard to ballpark it because everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, but riding threshold should maybe be a 7-8/10 RPE depending on interval duration (if 8/10 then this would be around the time of reaching/exceeding TTE).
In general, this is a good approach to Threshold/SST work.
Thanks for the replies. @pcort cooling is good, industrial fan. Intensity of workouts usually dropped about halfway through. I’m doing high volume as well so fatigue could also be a contributing factor I guess.
I disagree. Sounds like his FTP is too high. He could be VO2 Max-heavy with his prior experience and thus his ability at VO2 Max may be a bit beyond the average compared to his threshold. His Sweetspot is probably really his low threshold. I’d lower the FTP and focus on longer intervals to develop that middle gear.
In the past I was comfortably hitting VO2 max and SS workouts too but found that on long threshold intervals whilst I could hold them on resistance mode, I could be drawn into the Spiral of death in ERG mode which could strain my calf. So rightly or wrongly I dropped my FTP by around 20w and subsequently I am using a FTP which is 10w (3.8%) lower and that feels right.
As an aside I mostly use resistance mode now as it let’s me over perform on VO2Max without spinning out and does not slam on the brakes, both of which could hurt my calf (it might be the quality, or lack of, of the Suito).
This seems like a case where your FTP is set too high. But also dropping intensity to get through the intervals seems like an ok way to get the benefits you need. To me the ideal solution is using adaptive training beta and allowing it to dial in the workout levels. Even if your FTP is set wrong it will home in on a set of SS and threshold workouts that work for you, and you it will progress to higher levels as your fitness improves.
Yes I’ve been on the beta since April. It dials in the levels based on your training history (even pre- AT) and progresses the duration and intensity of intervals based on what you can vs can’t do. If you hit a workout that’s too tough it dials down the next one like it.
I used to overtrain like nuts on the standard training plans, AT has totally fixed that issue and I haven’t failed a workout all year.
basically it’s will give you workouts based on your progression levels. If you fail a workout because it’s too hard, it may regress your progression level and then serve you up an easy one. It may work in this case, but there is a bit of a concern (from me) that you can bury yourself doing threshold work that is above threshold and AT may not adjust you down until after you’re cooked. I think it’s a better approach with AT to let it progress you higher, not expect it to progress you lower.
@Magenta how long are the VO2 intervals you’re successfully completing?
I’m like you where I struggle w/ Threshold but nail VO2/SS. What I’ve been doing recently (in addition to my Threshold workout) is pushing out my VO2 intervals from shorter efforts (1-2 minutes) to workouts w/ intervals at 4-5 minutes. As I’ve progressed through those workouts, I’ve found that my ability at Threshold improves both mentally/physically.
It’s hard to tell. I used to absolutely fall apart at the end of Build on the old stock plans. It was just too much intensity and I’d be massively overtrained at the time when I wanted to be at my peak. So I’m now in my second round on AT and am feeling great.
If I was feeling bold I’d just manually bump up my levels or workout durations and let AT adapt to those higher levels. But to be honest I am just going to trust AT given the alternative of being chronically overtrained.
You should prob do a 20min test and set ftp to 90-95% of it. Or consider setting the trainer to your current ftp and see if you can ride steady for at least 40mins on that wattage. Otherwise it is surely too high.
Seems like a ramp test over estimates your ftp bc you have high vo2 power relative to your general aerobic fitness.