Training hard and still sucking at group rides

could it be that these guys stopped training during winter and only started riding again in may? your first group ride in may could’ve been their first ride of the season and their fitness has built up since?

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Not sure if mentioned but aren’t there any slower group rides you could join? Within our club we have a “social” type ride for beginners, then we have an A and B group. B is still a nice paced group, A is for the quicker riders, a lot of who typically race. We always want to try and encourage riders to move from one group to the next, maybe at the moment you are more B than A, nothing wrong in that. Get some “B” rides in, then if you feel you’re too strong or ready to move up then do so?

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I think one of the reasons I’ve been cycling for 18 years is that there are so many things to enjoy about cycling and the current thing that gets you on the bike can change over time but there is always something there. It could be the social aspect of group rides, competition, seeing physical improvements, seeing mental improvements, the beauty of days in the mountains, riding into a sunrise and seeing the sky light up, blasting yourself doing a zwift race, a mountain bike ride through the forest. Okay, maybe not doing vo2max intervals at 5am, its not all great.

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I will add my voice to the choir.

You’re riding with people who are much stronger cyclists than you. That’s all.

It’s not unusual either, find a group that suits your level.

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At 19% bf, I would say you have room to drop some weight and get more fit without losing muscle mass. If you are serious about cycling and do a lot of weightlifting, then it’s your diet. Clean it up to lose excess fat/weight, and maintain strength.

Also 200np on rides with a 300ftp is almost recovery ride territory. Are you simply not able to go harder on climbs?

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Or keep riding with them and adjust mental attitude. Last couple times on Wed night worlds I’ve been estimating what it takes to hang with the A group. Drafting some bigger dudes, guys that are over 100kg (I’m ~95kg), I’ve been able to hang on at around 325W. My FTP is roughly 265 right now and I estimate that I can last about 4-5 minutes hanging onto wheels. My short-term goal is to simply increase my time from 2 minutes to 4-5 minutes, take a short-cut, and then repeat when they catch me later in the ride.

@TRusername seem to recall you are 40+ and I listened to this podcast yesterday:

Well presented and practical information. Worth a listen.

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I’m 193cm tall and ftp of 296w. Every Sunday out on a solo ride I get overtaken on the climbs and then have that slightly awkward moment where I overtake on the flat only to be overtaken again on the next climb. I know I need to lose a few more kilos to be at my best but likewise it does sound like the guy calling the shots in your club is a bit of a dick. That’s my own prejudice though - I much prefer solo riding than with a group.

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and for that reason I’m known as the yo-yo on certain group rides :joy:

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You have to walk before you can run. To me, completing the ride takes precedence over doing work. The group ride I do has a fairly wide range of capabilities in it and it ends up that maybe 1/3 of the group actually works because that 1/3 can pull the group hard enough that the bottom 2/3 is just hanging on. It’s not uncommon for folks to sit in and as someone who can pull the group, I have almost 0 concern about the folks that aren’t able to pull.

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This answers your question. You’re a similar weight to me. You’ll never be fast on a climb no matter how fit you get but you’ll be a juggernaut on a flat run.

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Oof. That’s a hell of a group

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To be fair, at the moment I’m giving up 25-30W on my 38mm training tires. Life is definitely better for me drafting a 113kg Tongan dude or another guy of similar build, but even with faster tires there is a fitness gap to close. I’ve got 20 years on those guys too, not sure I’ll ever close the gap but hey it’s a goal. The smaller slippery guys are putting down 230-250.

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They must be on e’bikes :wink:

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Ah, gotcha. Now it’s a bit more what I have seen on the fast rides! I’m a 68kg long skinny build dude, and 250 or 260 is pretty much my benchmark to be able to hang on the back

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Not sure if OP is in the same boat but I’ll explain from a Southern California group ride perspective.

Saturday group rides can have 100+ turnout. Usually breaks down to (in order of speed Desc.):
A - 20-30 riders
B - 30-40 riders
C - 20-30 riders
D (Development) 1: 20 riders
D2: 10-20 riders
D3: 10-20 riders
D4: 0-10 riders

A, B, and C all drop riders and D1 picks up the dropped. d1 is a no drop and will bring everyone back. The top 4 groups ride the same route while the D2-4 ride alternate routes.

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The hard portion of the A route is 17 miles and ~40 minutes at ~26mph on good night. Our Wed night leader looks about 63kg and 168cm (a little help from Strava leaderboard). A taller guy with power data is about 183cm and 75-80kg. Our ride leader is really aero and getting some good drafts from the bigger riders, a couple weeks ago they did that 17 mile section together at 193W (~230 ftp) and 266W (~280 ftp) average power. Big difference.

and picking up on kbro, Wed rides usually start with 20-25 people and break into self organizing A-D groups after the group warms up together. And a regroup at the edge of town.

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200w NP is very low for a fast ride.

My riding group is generally quite small, so not a lot of riders to share the work. I’m 175cm and 72kg and on a good day ill do 300w+ NP, around 260w avg on our fast group ride on a Friday morning. We alternate between a crit track for 30min + 2 laps and a ~32km out and back (45-50mins). Can be anywhere from 39-44kph depending who and how many show up.

Quite often have a few just sitting (hanging) on, and thats fine by everyone, dont see why it wouldnt be

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Train less. Do more group rides.

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I’m in the same boat, early spring I hung with the fast group but now they’re pulling away and I’m getting dropped a few miles from the end. They’re Ironman athletes so they have huge engines compared, and I’m one of the the tall/bigger riders in the group (they call me “the wall” and fight to be behind me for the draft). I’m blaming my slower cornering as my primary problem - accumulation of vo2 efforts after every turn is a killer, but one big thing that makes or breaks me is carbs/hr. We’re burning a ton of calories compared to the little guys, make sure you’re doing 60-90gm carbs/hr on these rides and keeping up on it. I take a liquid carb bottle for when I’m in the front half of the line and don’t want to fumble with gels, and eat gels/bananas when I’m in the back half. If I don’t keep up or fall behind on 3-4 items per hour (around 20-24 carbs each) I’m starting to feel bonk-ish by the final hour. Even if you don’t feel like you’re full-onbonking, if you’re <70gm/hr of carbs I’d bet some weakness is from that.

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I can totally see 200NP and being fried in a decent size group in 2.5hrs if there are neutralized sections and hills. You’re noodling around in z1 in the neutral sections and descents but flat out on the non-neutral climbs, but one can only go so hard during those short periods of time.

It would be interesting to see a power file for the ride and TiZ chart. When I do group rides its like 40% Z1, 10-20%Z2, 15-20% Z5+ and that Z5+ time is what smokes me. What is going on only really pops out when I look at the TiZ chart.

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