Last thought: 200 watts NP is not that high for a 300 watt FTP. As some have said this could mean that you over test, it also could really be your FTP but with a fairly short TTE and not great ability to repeat.
When I first started training again in 2017 after a decade layoff, I was the exact same way. FTP shot up by leaps and bounds but (I) a few hours riding at 150 watts would toast me and (II) getting that FTP required extensive investment in Vo2max intervals (so it was a short, hard-gained peak).
In 2021, my FTP is only a few percentage points higher at 320, but I just did a five hour MTB ride at 220 NP and finished with gas in the tank. Four years ago I’d have done lower power and been dead for a week, right now I feel pretty much fine. And this has come off of almost entirely long rides and tempo, I’ve barely done any Vo2max yet.
So what’s the point? Be patient and be consistent with the endurance training, and the fitness’ll come. It’s about more than FTP. Right now you’re probacly relying on lot of anaerobic contribution snd so literally lighting glycogen on fire on these climbs. The adaptations required to mobilize, transport and utilize more fats take a long time to come but you can keep getting better for years. Your growth mindset is good, you just need to remember the time course is long and not get discouraged.
If these people are really only riding bikes on the weekends, you’ll overtake them before long.
You’re a big boy (as in an adult) so I won’t tell you want to do, but I would try to find a polite way to tell that guy to f-off (and probably end up failing to be polite. ) You are under no obligation to follow his directions nor to suffer his abuse. Perhaps that individual should ‘lead by example’ and spend more time on the front instead of worrying about what others are doing.
That 60 year old is a ringer. He doesn’t just ride on the weekend!
Are you constantly tired doing all the training that you are doing?
First, you hit a 300 watt FTP. That’s great. You just need to learn to use those watts. I’m 55 years old, started riding again 8 years ago and training again seriously a 3 years ago. I’m most likely never going to hit 300 watts. 240-250 is the best I’ve gotten so far.
It sounds like you just need more experience, more endurance miles under your belt, and need to learn how to use your watts. At your size, you will never will the climbing game against the flyweights. But maybe you could be good in TTs, ride people off your wheel on the flats, or be good in sprints?
I raced for 7 years in my twenties. I actually got better and better year over year for 5 straight years. We didn’t have power back then but I went from getting dropped in every race to being able to skillfully sit in a pack of 80 riders, stay at the front, and always be in a position to sprint at the end.
In the end, it’s all just for fun. At the end of my racing “career”, I was questioning why I was doing it. I didn’t win the genetic lottery - that was clear. I had my fun but was tired spending 20 hours a week training and driving to races to win a tire or a pack of power bars.
Hey gravity is a thing. You increased the W side of the W/kg equation. Other people are getting faster on climbs. Training age is a thing. Unless you are gifted performance increases are measured over years if you are consistent and ramping up volume. Add it up.
Yes. (I didn’t hit 300w FTP until after I had been riding for 10ish years and some of that was structured with self-designed plans and coached.)
I couldn’t find the clip, but early on in my cycling ‘career’ I watch the movie Pro by Jamie Paolinetti. There is an interview with a domestic pro, Eric Saunders, and he talks about how cycling is (or can be viewed as) a constructive process. A process to ‘improve’ your body. A process to improve your mind. The you who comes back from a ride or finishes a workout is different from the you that started. Hopefully better. Whether it is a recovery ride, or you are seeking specific adaptations in an interval session, or learned new skills, or had fun with friends, you learned or grew or developed.
That view of cycling as a constructive process, it resonated with me at the time and has stuck with me in the 15+ years since I first saw it.
Unless you are gifted performance increases are measured over years if you are consistent and ramping up volume. Add it up.
I guess this is basically where it’s at. The only other sports I did in my younger years were combat sports and powerlifting. Those sports were grueling and hard but I didn’t learn the meaning of suffering until I started cycling.
I couldn’t find the clip, but early on in my cycling ‘career’ I watch the movie Pro by Jamie Paolinetti. There is an interview with a domestic pro, Eric Saunders, and he talks about how cycling is (or can be viewed as) a constructive process. A process to ‘improve’ your body. A process to improve your mind. The you who comes back from a ride or finishes a workout is different from the you that started. Hopefully better. Whether it is a recovery ride, or you are seeking specific adaptations in an interval session, or learned new skills, or had fun with friends, you learned or grew or developed.
Thanks for that reference. I got into cycling because of the community and the clear progression of improvement. Along the way I got into a lot of the cycling “personalities” on YouTube and other social media, I’ve never been like that in any of the other sports I’ve done.
All of sudden it’s about recognition and getting respect in the community. I totally lost the plot on that one. Thanks for the reminder that this whole thing started (for me) with self improvement.
I’ll keep banging the drum for easy group riding with a small collection of friends.
Cycling doesn’t always have to be a race or a challenge or training. When I’m racing I’m a steely eyed killer but the rest of the time you’d see my ride data and think ‘that bloke’s a bimbler’. Thing is, lots of bimbling plus a sprinkling of tough group training sessions gets you pretty darn fast.
Your drop ride can be the tough group training session, but do find a less intense way of enjoying your bike as well. Maybe ask a few from your group if they’d like to join you for a 4hr spin with coffee stop.
I’m with grawp here. What about going for a nice solo or small group ride, just at endurance pace (60-70% FTP)? Smell the flowers, look at the forest, hear the birds, feel the air flow against your skin, chat about life. Just come home with a smile on your face. You can do the structured training on TR, and add some nice endurance miles and a smile on top.
Then maybe every couple of weeks, try the fast group ride, and just don’t pull, try to stick with the group instead of blowing yourself up. If it is one person making demands, it should be possible to kindly indicate a no. I can imagine the majority is okay with a rider not pulling if that keeps him/her with the group. As others say, in time, you will grow and can pull every now and then. Try to keep it incremental, and enjoy the process. I think it is a luxury to have free time to spent on cycling, especially outside, it is really time worth enjoying.
Weight might be the issue here. You didn’t mention it, but it might very well be that your FTP is in the ball park of the others, but they are lighter than you. So on the flats where weight doesn’t matter much you can hold your own, but you are at a disadvantage on the climbs.
Also the typical length of the climbs matters. You can VO2max short climbs if you train for it, which could mitigate some of the disadvantages you have.
At your height, your issue is nearly entirely body weight. Your FTP is just fine. Even if you’re very muscular, that weight, at that height is never going to be competitive against lighter riders. Sad, but true.
If I was in your situation and really wanted to be a competitive all round cyclist, I’d very carefully and over considerable time, drop body fat until I reached the best compromise.
You said that you dropped weight, but lost power. That seems strange as it wasn’t a huge amount and you have some way to go. I imagine it was just a reaction to lower fueling etc.
Diet advice is very complex, literally a billion people will chime in and tell you ‘what worked for them’. Spoiler alert, you are not them. So, you’ll have to find your own path.
Alternatively, you could do nothing about the weight and just crush those Mini Me’s on the flats, downhills and rolling terrain.
Oh, and please tell that guy from the group to F off and ride on his own. Nobody should put up with jerks like that.
We had a guy like that. We booted him. We’re all happier for it.
Finally, don’t forget to just enjoy your riding. You’re doing freaking great, don’t compare yourself to other people, compare yourself to you.
You’re improving and you will continue to improve.
could it be that these guys stopped training during winter and only started riding again in may? your first group ride in may could’ve been their first ride of the season and their fitness has built up since?
Not sure if mentioned but aren’t there any slower group rides you could join? Within our club we have a “social” type ride for beginners, then we have an A and B group. B is still a nice paced group, A is for the quicker riders, a lot of who typically race. We always want to try and encourage riders to move from one group to the next, maybe at the moment you are more B than A, nothing wrong in that. Get some “B” rides in, then if you feel you’re too strong or ready to move up then do so?
I think one of the reasons I’ve been cycling for 18 years is that there are so many things to enjoy about cycling and the current thing that gets you on the bike can change over time but there is always something there. It could be the social aspect of group rides, competition, seeing physical improvements, seeing mental improvements, the beauty of days in the mountains, riding into a sunrise and seeing the sky light up, blasting yourself doing a zwift race, a mountain bike ride through the forest. Okay, maybe not doing vo2max intervals at 5am, its not all great.
At 19% bf, I would say you have room to drop some weight and get more fit without losing muscle mass. If you are serious about cycling and do a lot of weightlifting, then it’s your diet. Clean it up to lose excess fat/weight, and maintain strength.
Also 200np on rides with a 300ftp is almost recovery ride territory. Are you simply not able to go harder on climbs?
Or keep riding with them and adjust mental attitude. Last couple times on Wed night worlds I’ve been estimating what it takes to hang with the A group. Drafting some bigger dudes, guys that are over 100kg (I’m ~95kg), I’ve been able to hang on at around 325W. My FTP is roughly 265 right now and I estimate that I can last about 4-5 minutes hanging onto wheels. My short-term goal is to simply increase my time from 2 minutes to 4-5 minutes, take a short-cut, and then repeat when they catch me later in the ride.
@TRusername seem to recall you are 40+ and I listened to this podcast yesterday:
Well presented and practical information. Worth a listen.
I’m 193cm tall and ftp of 296w. Every Sunday out on a solo ride I get overtaken on the climbs and then have that slightly awkward moment where I overtake on the flat only to be overtaken again on the next climb. I know I need to lose a few more kilos to be at my best but likewise it does sound like the guy calling the shots in your club is a bit of a dick. That’s my own prejudice though - I much prefer solo riding than with a group.
You have to walk before you can run. To me, completing the ride takes precedence over doing work. The group ride I do has a fairly wide range of capabilities in it and it ends up that maybe 1/3 of the group actually works because that 1/3 can pull the group hard enough that the bottom 2/3 is just hanging on. It’s not uncommon for folks to sit in and as someone who can pull the group, I have almost 0 concern about the folks that aren’t able to pull.
) You are under no obligation to follow his directions nor to suffer his abuse. Perhaps that individual should ‘lead by example’ and spend more time on the front instead of worrying about what others are doing.