Training fatigue, Motivation, Recovery and More - Ask a Cycling Coach 411

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  • What Hannah has learned in her recent races

  • How to stay motivated after bad results

  • What to do when the field starts hard

  • How easy should your recovery rides be?

  • Big training mistakes that cause burnout

  • How did Coach Jonathan do at IM Oceanside 70.3?

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Ask a Cycling Coach podcast is a cycling and triathlon training podcast. Each week USAC/USAT Level I certified coach Chad Timmerman, pro athletes, and other special guests answer your cycling and triathlon questions.

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I just want to make an appreciation post that it is really awesome when Jon becomes a cheerleader reading listener questions.

Q: “My FTP went from X to Y.”
Jon: way to go! That’s awesome.
Q: “now what?”

Also, positive plug for Nate’s digressions. Always entertaining.


Shouldn’t Adaptive Training help out the guy who was overdoing it after he dropped to Low Volume? It seems like he shouldn’t have to go in and select easier workouts with Workout Alternates. Adaptive Training should be adjusting his workouts taking into account the extra work he’s been doing. Or am I missing something? Maybe he rejected his adaptations?

  • As of now, Adaptive Training is NOT looking at “loading” in the way that many people assume. It does not have a TSS target per se, despite starting with one when it applies the plan to the calendar at the start. AT will NOT adjust if you deviate significantly from the training plan via volume and/or intensity.

  • To that end, AT will not cut duration or intensity of pending workouts if you go out and smash a 4-hour ride/race on the weekend. Anything we add to the plan (particularly if it is NOT a structured outside workout performed to the targets), we have to review that effort in the context of our plans and make changes as appropriate.

  • It would be great if it actually looked at this (it’s been asked for in feature requests) but for now, we are in control when we add work to the main plan.


Could you imagine the chaos this would create? Everyone who uses a low volume plan for intensity but also rides outside (which I gather is a good percentage of users), would see their PL’s drop. Do a group ride… PL drop. Commute to work… PL drop. Go for a ride with the kids… PL drop.

I think a lot of people feel they need to always be progressing. So if they see a workout that is not at or above their PL, they feel they are going backwards. But you aren’t. Sometimes you need to take a step back to keep going forward. In this regard I think the “productive” label for workouts could actually dip below PL’s some. Might help with perception of what the workout is doing for you.

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@MaxinePhilavong could you share the nutrition spreadsheet Jonathan mentioned in this episode? Or does someone know if there is a link handy? I saw a snippet of it on IG and have been interested in a good look at the whole thing.


Pet peeve time, but……

Both Nate and Jonathan referred to “deep dish” wheels. “Deep Dish” is a type of pizza, not a wheel. If a wheel was “deep dish” it would mean it has an extreme offset for the rear hub (i.e. wheel dish)

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.





Would buy (and eat!).


Carbohydrate wheels. Take “fuel the ride” to the next level… one slice at a time!


Enjoyed this one. Especially early on, about the race results. My first Crit last weekend and I got hammered, my breathing was all over and I couldn’t keep it going. But I’m trying again this week :sunglasses:

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Personally if that’s what it takes to keep my training on target and keep me from burning out that is what I would want to see. It doesn’t make sense to keep pushing PL’s higher if it is adding too much fatigue and stress.

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Gosh I hate those clickbaity thumbnails. (and I will refuse to watch that video in protest)

I know that’s what drives views from the worst of humanity, and views drives podcast listeners/tr memberships, and membership drives profit, but I wish TR wouldn’t stoop so low.


Race to the bottom… :frowning:
(lowest common denominator)


Yea, they’re pretty obnoxious.


Enjoyed the discussion :+1:

I think the run split shows a well paced bike, looking forward to seeing the details. Fantastic result :slightly_smiling_face:. I like the tips too, powder in the socks/shoes :+1:

Have to say that I wouldn’t be wanting to debate the pros and cons of leaving a bottle on a busy bike course with an official myself, I would always stop and pick up if I knew I had dropped something. Not worth the risk of a five minute penalty, let alone the risk to other riders leaving it out there.

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Is there a thread for this week’s episode (412)?

Appreciate Keegan’s candidness in the hot takes this week. Though I thought Jonathan was going to have a melt down when Keegan said he isn’t using “structure” for his long rides… and then when Keegan said “we all ride outside” for structure :grimacing:

  • No, TR has not created the topic like they usually do.

Great discussion of Oceanside, good work @Jonathan

Some stuff was excellent like the discussion of
The plan B with the lost bottle - going into such details and having a plan for failures definitely makes for quality long distance triathlon racing :+1:
It also came through when we discussed the nutrition sheet, salt / energy content, availability of an extra bottle of concentrated fluid in transition

i guess the new and untested helmet and jersey turned out lucky but might as well have backfired. Good learning point for the next race.
Same counts for the lack of transition training. Definitely do that.

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@Jonathan smashed Oceanside. Nicely done. On the pod you mentioned sharing your spreadsheets for pacing and nutrition. Where are they posted?

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