After focusing on cycling for several years, then moving into duathlons for the first time ever I spent last 4 months just focusing on running with no cycling in the run up to a half marathon (Bath, UK). Did 4-5 workouts a week, 35-40miles per week. One speed/v02 workout, one tempo/threshold, one long (usually about 90mins) run and 1-2 easy runs.
Felt training had been going pretty well and set decent 5k time (just under 18:30) in local parkrun.
Anyway Bath half marathon last weekend. Goal was sub 1:30 which felt very achievable with stretch goal of 1:25…ended up with 1hr 24 mins 31secs so v pleased. Would have been faster but last 1km was all up a big hill! Pleased with pacing, every 5km within 15secs of 20 mins.
The TLDR version; overall good day. Not what I hoped for from an outcome perspective however still a good day. I got a PR in the 70.3 distance and PR in the HM distance within a triathlon.
Long version:
My last triathlon was Waco 70.3 in 2019 in which I finished 7th in AG. My TT bike had gone unused since and planned to sell. After a few friends registered I figured could give it one last proper effort for a podium finish beforehand.
I looked at last years finish times for my AG and thought a top 5 was possible. Times for 1st through 5th finishing between 4:42-4:56… My PB was 4:57 and felt like my bike and run had come along way so not crazy to think I could place. I tried to put together a decent training cycle but life threw me a number of curveballs all year. Still, I felt I was in decent enough shape to be competitive.
Race day came but it was not without its challenges. I only managed to get to the pool five times leading up to the race so I had low expectations for the swim. That said, it went well up until the last couple hundred meters. Towards the end of the swim quite a few people started to swim over each other and at some point I thought I felt someone grabbing at my leg. Almost stroking it. After a minute I realized my timing chip had slipped out from under my wetsuit. I got really nervous it would slip off so I focused on not kicking my left leg for the remaining bit. This caused my hamstring/glute to cramp as soon as I got out of the water. It hurt to ride aero or push hard on the pedals for nearly 20 miles into the bike before it finally let up.
The bike was/is the most disappointing for me. I had trained and planned to hold a much higher power than what I did. Maybe it was the cramp at the start but I didnt have it in me to push harder than I did. Initially I thought the tailwind was great in that I was making good time and would have plenty in the legs to push at the turn around into the headwind. Things didnt quite work out that way for me. My HR was elevated to my Tempo effort even though I wasn’t pushing anywhere near tempo watts. Winds were 20+mph sustained with plenty of 30+mph gusts… So I focused on just going forward.
Once I got on the run my legs felt like they both wanted to cramp but tried to focus on breathing and the crowd. A few miles in the feeling passed and it was more or less smooth-ish sailing until I saw a group of friends at mile 8. I asked them before the race to give me splits and place within my group. When I got to them they told me 12th place and I thought they were messing with me. I thought no way I’m in 12th and ended up messing with my head. The last few miles became a struggle I felt a bit dizzy and short of breathe.
Despite the challenges I finished 37th Overall and 9th in Age Group.
Finish time 4:51:09
1.2 mile swim 35:54
56 mile bike 2:40:49
13.1 mile run 1:26:04 (15th best run on the day… pretty cool I think)
As I said, not the outcome I had hoped, but still very proud of my effort. On the bike I was passed by four riders the entire course. And not one person passed me on the run. A good day was had.
Oh, just to add, so it turns out last years times were slower across the field due to terrible weather. Top 3 in AG this year were all 35 mins ahead. This makes much more sense for my AG (40-44) versus last years times.
@MAGNUStm Always disappointing to not meet your goals. However, you set some PRs even when things went wrong. Your bike looks to be where you lost a load of time. So, another training build w/a bit of luck, you’re bound to set another set of PRs!
Runners World has always been thin on substance but I came across this article many years ago and it really hit home.
I did my final fast finish long run before work this morning. A repeat of 10 mi easy + 10 mi marathon pace I had done a month ago (actually 9.5 because I was late for a meeting) and I am pretty glad that it’s time to dial back the training. I vividly remember now why this is the first time in 10 years I went and trained for one again.
Falling more and more in love with running.
The weather is absolutely terrible (6C, gusty storm, light rain) - which are conditions I‘d never ride a bike in. But packing the dog in the trunk, and going for a walk in the forest is something that really isn’t nearly as daunting.
Super cold going out, but nice and cozy after the first few minutes of running.
The run/walk intervals of the C25k really help me getting used to running, while so far not a lot of soreness in the calves or hips.
And obviously it‘s nice how every run is full of all time
PBs. Doesn’t happen too regularly in cycling these days .
4*4‘ running/ 3.5min walking today. Already looking forward to the next run.
Looking good dude! Glad to hear the body’s adjusting well.
I definitely prefer running to cycling in the winter. It’s a good thing to have in your back pocket for when the weather’s crap, if for no other reason than because it requires way less damn planning than winter riding. Rough idea of the forecast and you’re usually good to go for most sessions/routes, and no bike to clean!
No, the marathon is not a bucket-list item… I did the 9+1 NYRR program mainly because having 10-12 races on my calendar this year kept me focused and gave me lots of formal time trials to gauge progress. The guaranteed marathon entry was gravy. My real long-term goal in terms of performance is to get faster at distances from 5K to 15K.
A marathon would be nice, especially such an iconic one as NYC, but I worry that trying to train properly for a marathon will either put too much strain on the joints of my 80-pounds-overweight body, or that I won’t be able to put in the volume for it unless I stop cycling again for a few months (which I did this year for the half, and don’t want to do again).
I think that I shouldn’t do the marathon. My current weekly volume is about four hours (~30 km/week) and my primary training focus is the bike. A year from now, that might be 5 hours and 40 km/week… but even with another 4 hours on the bike every week, that doesn’t seem like enough weekly volume for a marathon run.
The reason I’m asking all this is that I don’t know how much the bike hours will help. Maybe I’m wrong and 4 hours running plus 4 hours cycling is more than enough to at least finish the marathon comfortably (if slowly)? Or maybe I should just drop the idea entirely and focus on 10K and 15K events to improve my speed?
Most people around here are trying to reach the top 2% of finishers in their age group. I’m currently in the BOTTOM 2% of my age group.
Absolutely. I expected to have biked around 2:30ish. I was simply unable to push power.
To be competitive in my AG I would need be closer to 220, maybe 215, and not sure that’s within the realm of possibility. At least not based on power estimates provided by Best Bike Split.
I’m an ex runner - 2:47/1:17 for the full and half marathon - generally LSD running helps with cycle endurance but not power. Large amounts of cycling keep you run fit IF you are already a runner, but do nothing to help you run the kind of distance you need to run a marathon. I ran 2:48:30 in my last London marathon on 35miles/week 2 weights sessions and 3 hours of winter TR bike sessions. However, only because I ran 60mile/week in the past in marathon training.
Just ran a threshold workout: 4x1200m at 7:30/km (12:05/mile) with 200m recoveries at 10:00/km (16:00/mile). Each interval took 9 minutes, the recoveries were 2 minutes each.
Max HR per interval was 164, 166, 168, 169. Threshold HR is ~162bpm (max is 186bpm), so I was pushing slightly harder than threshold. Total distance was 7.6km (4.7 miles).
It felt a bit tougher mentally than physically, but was definitely doable. Total time of “work” intervals was 36 minutes, though, and I just remembered this post of yours about threshold workouts being 20 minutes. Seems like 20 minutes isn’t much work…? Am I somehow overdoing it? Didn’t feel that bad, recovering from the workout the next day didn’t feel so bad either.
If I’m not overdoing it, what would the progression be from here?
Do the same workout a couple more times until max HR comes down to about 164 or so, then increase the speed a little bit, rinse and repeat?
Reduce rest (3x1600) at the same speed and same total work time? Then add work time? Or speed?
Increase the length of each work interval for more work time?
For what it’s worth, my instinct is to do #2 above: reduce the recoveries to about 1 minute by not jogging as slowly and reducing the distance, and change the work intervals to 3x1600 to eliminate one rest interval entirely, then as max HR comes down we add speed to keep everything at threshold.
Edit: P.S. Thanks again for the advice from both @Jolyzara and @toribath, it really helped.
Dude, you crushed that workout! 4x1200 with just a 200 jog is a tough one.
To clarify the “20 min” I was talking about was in reference to running it straight with no recovery. And on that note, there is no time cap here… if you can do more do it. We would regularly do thresholds up to an hour. You just adjust your pace (i.e a 60 tempo might be at marathon pace where a 30 min might be at 1/2 marathon pace).
As for your workout… I wouldn’t change a thing. Keep up the good work!
Yay, thanks. I was quite happy with the result, I’ll admit! It was hard, but I had expected it to be even harder.
I’ll move to 3x1600 (same total distance) with 200m recoveries, then keep adding in a little more speed over time (keeping max HR to <164 ideally). Given ~30km/week total volume, I probably shouldn’t increase total work for a while.
Again, thanks. I’m starting to get a much better handle on how to plan out my progress.
I think running speed is important here. If you are running at the pointy end I think intervals are better, so 3-4xmile or 6x800m. Firstly they will boost speed more and secondly if your tempo pace (10m - 1/2 marathon pace) is sub 6min/miles then it really batters the body if you do long tempo runs - I always saved it for races (in this situation marathon pace is better for tempo runs of 60 odd minutes). If you are running at a steadier pace then tempo is king as you can as mentioned get a good workout with 3xmile because each interval is taking about 10mins or so. Faster running in that situation would only be needed once comfortable with a full 20-30mins tempo.
Sounds like a really solid workout too- if your RPE is about where you expect and you’re recovering well, that’s the most important thing. The 20 minute continuous threshold example is commonly used simply because it’s one of those fairly widely used sessions, kind of like ye olde 2 x 20 on the bike- but similarly to that it’s not an absolute rule/upper limit, and you can absolutely build them out to longer if you feel it’s appropriate for your goal events and training history. (for context I think the 20 min threshold session has it’s roots in high school track running- generally sub 40 min events and athletes with fewer years of aerobic training behind them, but your needs might be quite different.)
I’ve seen all three approaches used successfully TBH, and I think any would probably work- but generally speaking longer blocks and/or more continuous sessions are going to be at a slightly lower intensity. I am a simple beast and prefer shorter intervals on the higher end for 10k and below, longer stuff for longer races, but YMMV (and I think the fatigue from either can be kind of different depending on the athlete’s strengths, so it’s worth experimenting with both to see where you get the most ‘bang for your buck,’ relatively speaking)
I get your point, but I’m all the way at the other end of the stick. Even at slightly OVER threshold, 3x1600 is going to take 12 minutes. I’m still probably two years away from a tempo 10-minute mile.
Thank you! OK, that makes perfect sense. For now, I prefer simplicity and I see a psychological benefit to 3x1600… I feel like it’ll really help me know, and push, my 5K pace. If I can do 3x1600 at 7:30 at threshold, I should be able to take a minute or so off my 5K PB, then keep improving.
This is good to hear. I’ve done plenty of 60-70+ mile weeks in the past. As of late I’ve been averaging 30+ miles a week. With NYC in a couple weeks I have ver low expectations but will try my best to stay within myself for a decent run. Whatever time that might be.
Ran the Eva Air 21km yesterday as a long run w/thousands of “friends”. I had no intention of racing or pushing for a time. I finished in 1:36:42 (4:33/km). It was chill and relaxed. I did pick up the pace for 3km in the middle (~4:00/km). That was fun and also a reminder of how far I have to go to get all the way back. I still have 8wks until my goal race (21km), where 87-88min would be a nice way to end this year.
Good luck…that may be the key - my last London marathon was the only time I managed a negative split - 1:24:30/1:24 for each half. I think I ran conservatively at the start as I hadn’t done the miles but it worked well and I ran the 35-40k section in 19:40 which was my fastest of the race. In the past I have run quicker overall but was slowing by that stage. It was also by far the most comfortable marathon experience I have had and I have done 20+ marathons. The weight training helped in the last 10k as well I think. Legs felt strong.
Contemplating a track comeback at 10k state champs this weekend. Been a few years since I’ve done anything serious on mondo surface. Should probably stop letting myself get talked into silly things at the pub
I’ve been rather jealously eyeing up our uni development program for a while but haven’t really had the fitness. Finally managed to whip myself into relatively good shape so I’m kind of tempted to see if I can sneak in for next year.
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